My second AAR (again)
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
RE: My second AAR (again)
However, Russia is once again prevented from attacking Germany.
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- composer99
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RE: My second AAR (again)
Does the US have anything they can do in the surprise impulse against Germany & Italy? Or are they just getting the production bump?
~ Composer99
RE: My second AAR (again)
ORIGINAL: composer99
Does the US have anything they can do in the surprise impulse against Germany & Italy? Or are they just getting the production bump?
The question is two fold : no they cannot exploit surprise.
But no, they're not only getting the production bump : they're probably saving Spain...
At the first impulse they'll have 5 corps in Spain, of equivalent quality to what Germany has. At he end of the turn, they'll be joined by one artillery and one engineer. A para is also en route, but will only be operationnal on the next turn. However, combined with an already present marine unit, they can threaten many a target (these won't go to Spain.)
They also have their Eastern fleet which can help against the subs, and more importantly support invasions.
While all of this is not tremendously powerful, it may be just what is missing to secure Spain. As Germany, I count at most one or two impulses to capture Madrid. After, it will be too late : strong British and American units should hold the city.
That's why, on the next impulse, the Germans will have to carefully evaluate the risks of a low odds attack. If they take it and they again fail, their whole position in Spain could be compromised, and indeed a rout is not excluded. If they don't, it just means that they abandon the offensive stance and go into the defensive one, protecting the Pyreneans and the coasts of France. The situation is tense for Germany.
In effect, with the US entry, the odds become equal in Spain, both sides having an about equal amount of good quality corps, but the allies have some expendable ones, which gives them an edge for any offensive.
The one itch is that the USA and Spain don't cooperate, which will obviously limit the ability to reconquer Spain, with one unit out of three being british, one being spanish and one being american...
- composer99
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RE: My second AAR (again)
ORIGINAL: composer99
What about US air units?
I only built Air Transports and carrier planes.
Early US air units are crappy. They are better scrapped than built...
And in this game, I had to be picky for US builds : don't forget that the US gear up happened rather late!
So no, no US air units to speak off.
And that's where Germany still has a strong advantage: lack of serious bombers will prevent strong allied counterattacks.
Yves
RE: My second AAR (again)
The British send a small expeditionnary force to attack the Italians in the East Mediterranean.
They are lucky and surprise them while they are busy invading.
They are lucky and surprise them while they are busy invading.
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RE: My second AAR (again)
The Italian navy suffers some heavy damage.
A 5BP loss is not light for Italy!
A 5BP loss is not light for Italy!
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RE: My second AAR (again)
But the hood is damaged too.
This is minor and the fight is clearly an allied victory.
The Commonwealth flees the fight, not wanting to risk more.
In particular, it doesn't wish to risk staying in the sea area and possibly face a retaliation by the modern Italian battleships.
This is minor and the fight is clearly an allied victory.
The Commonwealth flees the fight, not wanting to risk more.
In particular, it doesn't wish to risk staying in the sea area and possibly face a retaliation by the modern Italian battleships.
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RE: My second AAR (again)
Spain after the allied first impulse movement.
The US armor will move into Madrid on the next impulse, making the city that much more difficult to capture.
Unfortunately (for Germany), the mountains west of Madrid prevent the city from being immediately surrounded, so the British or American units cannot yet be put OoS.
The US armor will move into Madrid on the next impulse, making the city that much more difficult to capture.
Unfortunately (for Germany), the mountains west of Madrid prevent the city from being immediately surrounded, so the British or American units cannot yet be put OoS.
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- composer99
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RE: My second AAR (again)
The Germans sure do look strung out. I guess that will not be the case once they capture Saragossa.
They certainly look like they're hurting for divisions to take as losses.
They certainly look like they're hurting for divisions to take as losses.
~ Composer99
RE: My second AAR (again)
What I would be worrying about as Germany is the USSR. Germany has far more defensive markers than it needs; I would start transferring some of them to offense. Note that the German defensive garrison value is exactly the same as the German garrison value; that means (in 1942) that the Germans have more chits in the defensive pool than they can use. With a garrison value of 49. halved for the year to 24.5, the Germans can only use 24.5 points of defensive chits. The Russians are in shouting distance of getting into the war. Both sides should be building units not for their combat value, but for their garrison value -- GAR, MIL, pilots to put ino obsolete planes, MTN, etc. With the German airforce largely in Spain, the Russians want to go to war now. The Germans have to decide it they want to attack; I doubt it, but I don't know the position on the Soviet border.
I thought I knew how to play this game....
RE: My second AAR (again)
ORIGINAL: Courtenay
What I would be worrying about as Germany is the USSR. Germany has far more defensive markers than it needs; I would start transferring some of them to offense. Note that the German defensive garrison value is exactly the same as the German garrison value; that means (in 1942) that the Germans have more chits in the defensive pool than they can use. With a garrison value of 49. halved for the year to 24.5, the Germans can only use 24.5 points of defensive chits. The Russians are in shouting distance of getting into the war. Both sides should be building units not for their combat value, but for their garrison value -- GAR, MIL, pilots to put ino obsolete planes, MTN, etc. With the German airforce largely in Spain, the Russians want to go to war now. The Germans have to decide it they want to attack; I doubt it, but I don't know the position on the Soviet border.
It is true that while nothing is happening there, a shot of the Germany/Russia border is interesting. So here we are.
The Germans have no interest in an offensive against Russia at anytime now that they are already in a land war in Spain. Furthermore, most units near Russia are crappy... Elite units are in Spain.
So yes, what they want is to bolster their defense. But not too much. The Russian are not afraid now about a German DoW. They want it! As long as they believe they have a chance at a war declaration, they will increase their garrison, leaving Japan alone. If at any time thye think they won't reach it before several turns, they might decide to turn east, against Japan which doesn't need an additional front. So there is a game of "catch me" going on there...
Germany won't move chit in the offensive pool because it won't declare war on Russia. And too many chits in the defensive pool do no harm... It means that whenever new garrisonning arrive, they are always matched by chits. Playing smart might be the way of getting an unwanted war...
Yves
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RE: My second AAR (again)
ORIGINAL: composer99
The Germans sure do look strung out. I guess that will not be the case once they capture Saragossa.
They certainly look like they're hurting for divisions to take as losses.
Yes. Saragossa is a pain.
Madrid is now the real problem. Taking it fast is necessary. If they succeed, Saragossa falls like a ripe fruit at the end of the turn and a good position in Spain will be possible. If they fail, then they may later try to capture Saragossa to improve their defensive position.
Thinks will happen fast now, probably this impulse.
Yves
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RE: My second AAR (again)
I was going to say that taking Saragossa makes enveloping Madrid easier, because the Germans don't have to hold back 6+ units to encircle Saragossa. (Especially since one of the Spanish units trapped there is the MECH, right?)
Once the Germans are in a position to envelop Madrid, the Allies pretty much have to pull back because they will be out of supply if encircled (save the Spaniards).
Regarding the Eastern Front, does the USSR intend to occupy the Baltics? It looks like they haven't bothered. If they have, I'm curious as to why they're not lining a few units up along the Neman River line. Sure they're some turns away from going to war, but stretching the German defences is always a good plan.
Once the Germans are in a position to envelop Madrid, the Allies pretty much have to pull back because they will be out of supply if encircled (save the Spaniards).
Regarding the Eastern Front, does the USSR intend to occupy the Baltics? It looks like they haven't bothered. If they have, I'm curious as to why they're not lining a few units up along the Neman River line. Sure they're some turns away from going to war, but stretching the German defences is always a good plan.
~ Composer99
RE: My second AAR (again)
ORIGINAL: composer99
I was going to say that taking Saragossa makes enveloping Madrid easier, because the Germans don't have to hold back 6+ units to encircle Saragossa. (Especially since one of the Spanish units trapped there is the MECH, right?)
Once the Germans are in a position to envelop Madrid, the Allies pretty much have to pull back because they will be out of supply if encircled (save the Spaniards).
Yes, but its too late for that! The allies have enough units to ensure Madrid cannot be closed. Already, getting rid of the adjacent US armor in the mountians would be a pain in itself.
ORIGINAL: composer99
Regarding the Eastern Front, does the USSR intend to occupy the Baltics? It looks like they haven't bothered. If they have, I'm curious as to why they're not lining a few units up along the Neman River line. Sure they're some turns away from going to war, but stretching the German defences is always a good plan.
Yes. I realized this morning that I had forgotten to do that.
It will be done shortly, now that the USSR can do land moves...
RE: My second AAR (again)
The weather turns sour almost everywhere it can, except in the mediterranean zone.
Germany and Italy take a combined.
They try to copy the USSR tactics, but their own 19 points carpet bombing failed.
Unfortunate when one considers that it had 20% of removing both units, and 30% of removing at least one of them...
Rolling a 6 here would have been rather better!
Germany and Italy take a combined.
They try to copy the USSR tactics, but their own 19 points carpet bombing failed.
Unfortunate when one considers that it had 20% of removing both units, and 30% of removing at least one of them...
Rolling a 6 here would have been rather better!
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RE: My second AAR (again)
Because it is clear that this is the impulse where everything will get decided, the Commonwealth performs a Ground Strike CAP over Madrid. A quite rare move...
It serves no purpose as the Stukas get through.
It serves no purpose as the Stukas get through.
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RE: My second AAR (again)
And disorganize the second infantry.
Even though the inf are now stuck to Madrid and the US armored cannot enter, Germany has no choice but to attack now. Fraco could indeed move north on the next impulse and reorg one inf, losing a +2 bonus. Thereafter, that inf (if Spanish) could move out to let the armored enter. Nothing the Germans want to see happening.
Even though the inf are now stuck to Madrid and the US armored cannot enter, Germany has no choice but to attack now. Fraco could indeed move north on the next impulse and reorg one inf, losing a +2 bonus. Thereafter, that inf (if Spanish) could move out to let the armored enter. Nothing the Germans want to see happening.
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RE: My second AAR (again)
For a battle that might clearly change the course of the war, the allies launch all the planes they have within range in the defense of the city.
Note that the previous turn has destroyed most fighters for both sides... Germany has now only one on the whole theater, and it is not in position. Not repositionning it in time was certainly a mistake (although space is missing in Spain with all these moutain hexes). The British used theirs against the German Ground Strike ; but of course, it is not needed now.
Note that the previous turn has destroyed most fighters for both sides... Germany has now only one on the whole theater, and it is not in position. Not repositionning it in time was certainly a mistake (although space is missing in Spain with all these moutain hexes). The British used theirs against the German Ground Strike ; but of course, it is not needed now.
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RE: My second AAR (again)
A +6 attack is not bad.
But not enough when rolling a 6!
Well, well, well...
Germany doesn't seem to be able to get rid of that bad luck that's sticking at her shoes from the beginning of the game.
That attack was a 50% chance of a win (destruction of 2 units.)
If the carpet bombing had succeeded, the attack would had been at least at +7, for a 90% win (destruction of 1 unit)...
Overall, they had about 75% chance of capturing the city, but that did not happen! Well, actually a little since the success of the Stuka it self was lucky. But the global chance was certainly over 60%... It would have been better to roll the 15 for the land combat and the 6 for the Stuka...
Also note that even with a perfect play where Germany had placed their fighter within correct range and succeeded at reppeling all enemy planes, the roll of 6 would still have been a failure, possibly even worse: instead of a 12, they'd had a 15, for a loss of two units to one, and in addition no air cover over their fleet and subs... So indeed, that mistake was a good thing for Germany, as things turn out.
But not enough when rolling a 6!
Well, well, well...
Germany doesn't seem to be able to get rid of that bad luck that's sticking at her shoes from the beginning of the game.
That attack was a 50% chance of a win (destruction of 2 units.)
If the carpet bombing had succeeded, the attack would had been at least at +7, for a 90% win (destruction of 1 unit)...
Overall, they had about 75% chance of capturing the city, but that did not happen! Well, actually a little since the success of the Stuka it self was lucky. But the global chance was certainly over 60%... It would have been better to roll the 15 for the land combat and the 6 for the Stuka...
Also note that even with a perfect play where Germany had placed their fighter within correct range and succeeded at reppeling all enemy planes, the roll of 6 would still have been a failure, possibly even worse: instead of a 12, they'd had a 15, for a loss of two units to one, and in addition no air cover over their fleet and subs... So indeed, that mistake was a good thing for Germany, as things turn out.
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