MacArthur

[jbdenney]

Let me apologize. I am writing this while on pain meds so I an having issues trying to put together words. So bear that in mind if I fail to make sense.
I have been trying to find any discussion on this in the forums with no luck - pain meds again

How is MacArthur handled. I know there is s USAFFE leader and a Southwest Pacific which come in later.

Do I have to get Mac out of the Philippines or is he removed automatically by the game?.
What happens if he is killed or captured before the later Mac is received? Can he refuse FDR's to get out?

As a side question do leaders get promotions in rank?

jbdenney

[Sardaukar]

Mac is duplicated. So even if you leave him to PI, he will reappear as SWPAC commander.

[tocaff]

Imagine if there had been 2 of him in reality. [X(]

[czert2]

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Imagine if there had been 2 of him in reality. [X(]

Yeah, his wife will be very "happy".

[pontiouspilot]

You may be better off without "Dugout Doug"!!

[jmalter]

I got a huge grin when (as Allied) I 1st heard the 'Orphan Ann' reports. IMO the game would be much improved, if IJN players would receive an ocaisional sample of a MacArthur msg.

[Rexor]

While we're on the subject, how important is a figure like MacArthur when high-up leaders don't seem to make a big impact on the game? I mean, where would I put him to make the most use of his abilities?

[Big B]

Yes - he is duplicated. So no worries about successfully rescuing him from the Philippines.

As for Mac' the General and the man - MacArthur has been the center of a storm on this forum for at least 10 years that I know of. Folks like him or disparage him... it depends chiefly on their generation and what they have read about him (and by whom). So you'll never get a consensus on the man himself Here.
In game turns - you definitely want to use him.

B

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Mac is duplicated. So even if you leave him to PI, he will reappear as SWPAC commander.

[dr.hal]

What he tried to do to Wainwright was and remains unforgivable, let alone all the other folks on Bataan.

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: Rexor
While we're on the subject, how important is a figure like MacArthur when high-up leaders don't seem to make a big impact on the game? I mean, where would I put him to make the most use of his abilities?

Well IMO, I've usually kept Mac in Townsville, & have never used his 2nd appearance as an actual combat HQ, but only as a CommandHQ to facilitate Oz/US ToE upgrades.

MacArthur the man will continue to be an enigmatic figure for many more years, & for many more books!

My current take is, that his suzerienty over conquered Japan, beginning in August '45 & ending perhaps 4 months into the Korean conflict, was the best service he gave his nation. So I'd guess that in WITP terms, he'd do best w/ Admin skills.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Rexor

While we're on the subject, how important is a figure like MacArthur when high-up leaders don't seem to make a big impact on the game? I mean, where would I put him to make the most use of his abilities?

Just leave him in command of his HQ (southwest Pacific). He is a good commander and it cost a hell of a lot of PPs to move him out.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Big B

Yes - he is duplicated. So no worries about successfully rescuing him from the Philippines.

As for Mac' the General and the man - MacArthur has been the center of a storm on this forum for at least 10 years that I know of. Folks like him or disparage him... it depends chiefly on their generation and what they have read about him (and by whom). So you'll never get a consensus on the man himself Here.
In game turns - you definitely want to use him.

B

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Mac is duplicated. So even if you leave him to PI, he will reappear as SWPAC commander.

Not a lot of regard her for him as a man or commander for that matter. His folly in Korea is legendary. However, to his credit, his strategy in the South West Pacific was for the most part flawless, and should be considered the high point of his career.

[dr.hal]

Crsutton, at some point in the game isn't the Bataan version of him get withdrawn?

[rustysi]

His folly in Korea is legendary

Inchon???

[wdolson]

What makes a flag officer's career has more to do with their staff than their own brilliance, though picking a good staff does reflect on their wisdom. I once read about Patton's staff. When he set out to put one together, he found staff officers who were too unconventional to get along on other staffs and recruited them. They constantly thought outside the box and enabled his units to do great things.

MacArthur had some brilliant staff officers too. SW Pac was full of unconventional people. His operations in New Guinea and New Britain were outstanding feats of logistics and planning. He was overly obsessed with taking back the Philippines, which strategically wasn't necessary. As occupational governor of Japan, he (or someone on his staff) recognized how Japanese society revolved around the emperor and he decided to work that to his advantage. The occupation of Japan was extremely successful with various functions like policing being handed over to civilian control with few problems on an earlier time schedule than most occupations do.

He did turn around the situation in Korea when the UN troops were crammed into the southern tip of the peninsula. However, Mac's massive ego was his eventual downfall.

Bill

[DD696]

I do recall one of his last speeches - something to the effect that "Old soldiers never die, they just fade into being a God".

[JeffroK]

??

I don't see Macarthurs SWPacific campaign as anything amazing and many of his staff were self seeking sycophants.

Many of his successes were based on the excellence of his subordinates like Kenney, Eichelberger and his Australian Allies plus the doggedness of his GI's, Marines & Diggers.

Having overwhelming Air and Sea power gave him an ability to strike wherever he planned and provided support in some touchy situations.

However, I like his strategy in landing on Leyte and at Lingayen Gulf, he probably worked on this for the whole time after he left Bataan. A Japan invasion would have proven his ability to be rated against commanders such as Eisenhower & Bradley, running a campaign with a number of Armies under his command.

Leave him on Bataan!!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

His folly in Korea is legendary

Inchon???

A nice piece of work but that does not make up for the disaster that followed. Or, for disobeying orders. MacArthur was not all bad or not all good, but it is the end game that matters and he blew that.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

ORIGINAL: Rexor
While we're on the subject, how important is a figure like MacArthur when high-up leaders don't seem to make a big impact on the game? I mean, where would I put him to make the most use of his abilities?

Well IMO, I've usually kept Mac in Townsville, & have never used his 2nd appearance as an actual combat HQ, but only as a CommandHQ to facilitate Oz/US ToE upgrades.

MacArthur the man will continue to be an enigmatic figure for many more years, & for many more books!

My current take is, that his suzerienty over conquered Japan, beginning in August '45 & ending perhaps 4 months into the Korean conflict, was the best service he gave his nation. So I'd guess that in WITP terms, he'd do best w/ Admin skills.

The movie "Emperor" was pretty good. Started with macs arrival in Japan. GP

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Big B

Yes - he is duplicated. So no worries about successfully rescuing him from the Philippines.

As for Mac' the General and the man - MacArthur has been the center of a storm on this forum for at least 10 years that I know of. Folks like him or disparage him... it depends chiefly on their generation and what they have read about him (and by whom). So you'll never get a consensus on the man himself Here.
In game turns - you definitely want to use him.

B

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Mac is duplicated. So even if you leave him to PI, he will reappear as SWPAC commander.

Not a lot of regard her for him as a man or commander for that matter. His folly in Korea is legendary. However, to his credit, his strategy in the South West Pacific was for the most part flawless, and should be considered the high point of his career.

Ahem ... Big Mac had the fore knowledge from Ultra as to where the Japanese garrisons were. So hit them where they ain't was easy. Being successful when you know the enemy's plans does no take a a genius. Now his gamble at Inchon is and was a masterpiece, but then the fates took it away at the Yalu river. He was awarded 7 silver stars, 3 distinguished service crosses, 5 distinguished service medals, a bronze start and 2 purple hearts (this is a short list). The man was no coward and calling him "Dugout Doug" is a slur on the man and the uniform. He fubar'd in the PI big time when he didn't put enough supplies on Bataan and ordered his air force to be grouped together. All in all MacArthur was a better than average general but not lucky, and Napoleon demanded his generals be lucky.