Red Storm would sell better if OTS...

[Mad Russian]

The only thing that was deviated from the actual terrain is that rivers have to follow hexsides instead of flowing naturally and I cut a few roads where it was becoming too many roads for the AI to deal with.

You have to consider that a huge part of FPC's success is the ability of the AI to function. Many of the map features are what they are so the AI can determine how to function.

We aren't unsympathetic to the pretty map issue. This is one of the two main areas that gamers would like to see improvement in. The is Sudden Death and it's been done. So, we are now left to work out what can be done with maps.

We have discussed on several occasions making maps that you can toggle the hex grid on and off.

Good Hunting.

MR

[jack54]

I think **budd** really nailed it when he said a mix of free and paid content.

I for one greatly appreciate all the freebies you guys give us but I think some paid stuff may actually move the game along.

Example:

A campaign playable from both sides...let's say... FC: Fulda Gap... you charge 5-10 bucks depending on the work involved.

All of a sudden the matrix windows are cycling the new FC content. FC:RS is alive and well!(I may be wrong but it could move FC:RS back to the top of the forum list.)

It's an 'out of sight' 'out of mind' kind of thing.

just thinking out-loud again!

[Hexagon]

Maybe use AARs to made people interest in game... something like the one you do in pre-release.

In the aparence area... myabe add some bonus, for example i think the previous game have a great look database, why not add a more visual database??? some graphics to show weapons performance, ability to compare diferent hardware... and well improve the map art, the game for me now remember a lot to Tiller games, change when you add a map mod is [&o]


Money... maybe 2 diferent options one for new guys in serie (buy x title and you have y with a z discount) and other for old dogs (if you have x title release weekend you have a discount and out of release date you have a smaller discount) and well, for both some specials in the middle of the year, not only the christmas matrix sales.

And finally nothing like a good pair of t**s, they can sell everything!!! but remember put the game name in the middle [:D]

[Werewolf13]

Deleted by Werewolf: After reading my post I was reminded of the oft repeated saw write once read thrice before posting. So I did. 'nuff said.

[harry_vdk]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

ORIGINAL: hazmaxed

I voted possibly. It would have to have a turn sequence usable in a board game, though. Some form of "chit pull" system, I would expect.

There have been asynchronous turns in a board game for more than 25 years now. It's not all that hard. There are several available at the moment that are very popular. Whatever mechanism that is used to have one sides order cycle different from the other. My own games use a random chit pull system. It's much easier to implement from a design stand point in a board game that it is in a computer game. The end results are much the same; exciting intense gaming experiences.

The reason for this thread is that we were approached to see if we would consider doing a boardgame version of FPC:RS. Among us we have a 'few' other game designs that are at various stages of development that 'could' be tied in with FPC:RS. While it may well be a diversion of resources, there are times when you need to step away from any project. Rob has been steadily coding FPC for about 8 years now. That's a lot of time on one project.

It's not that we 'need' something else to do but there are times when you need something a bit different on your mind. It's like fishing for bass at your favorite spot. You always go there. But one day, you go fishing for crappie instead with a couple of friends that invited you. You're still fishing but it's different. It's that kind of a thing. I was working on a boardgame project when I joined this one and it's fairly well advanced at this time.

We are not going to leave the computer gaming market to produce board games. However, the comment that board games are dead is completely false. By far more board wargames than computer games are sold every year.

Vassal/Skype have created the opponents needed part of the equation.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Think of this one a simple market survey on how we can reach more wargamers and improve our base number of customers. Pretty light thinking for a Sunday afternoon. [;)]

Comments welcome as usual.

Making a correct working boardgame on Vassal or Tabletop Simulator (steam) is a free advertising and marketing of the game.

[governato]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


[

Because none us of are graphics artists. Artwork either costs considerably OR you have someone on the team that is an artist. That's the two finite choices we have.

I guess at this point the question is, would you pay more for a game with better graphics? Because to get them to you it will cost. And that cost is not inconsiderable.

Good Hunting.

MR

(add expletive not fit for print here [:)]) ...yes, I'd be willing to pay more for a more immersive (read: better) looking game! There are two fantastic graphic mods available for this game. People love them. License the tiles from the designers, add them to the map editor and you will get more people buying the game and more people creating scenarios, which will bring you long term income.

[Richie61]

I maybe complete alone here, but I think that 2 current & 1 future game all based on the ETO is enough if not too much. I could see the future being a DLC to add on to the Gen. 2 game, but let's see another area of operation.

Please [:)]

[CapnDarwin]

governato, The big problem is the mods being done are hand drawn and not tile specific models. Even if they were, the automap value routine is not capable of reading that style of art. We are going to be looking at trying a new routine with more target color pick up per tile type. If that proves to be workable then we may be in a position to improve the existing overlay art for things like the trees, fields, and buildings. That and some 3d effect add ins for hills and rivers and we start to close the gap on what some of those modded maps can do. We will also look at doing different road colors and adding more road and river labels too.

[Ratzki]

I think that price has to be looked at to entice new gamers. At $57 Canadian for the DL, it would be a little steep to leap in and take a chance. Once you know how you like the game, then fine, you would go higher for new releases and DLCs. A 1st time buyer might shy away somewhat.

[SeriousCatNZ]

Yeah, the price is way too high for gamers new to grognard simulations without knowing what they're buying. I was introduced to wargames through Unity of Command, which very conveniently had a demo. The clean and deceptively simple style of the visuals interested me, so I downloaded the demo and gave it a go. A little over 12 months later I own over 30 games from the Slitherine Group. Two things I've noticed about wargames: (1) It's a very, very small niche market of (maybe) around 10,000 people; and (2) Resources for wargames news and reviews aren't in the mainstream (e.g. ArmchairGeneral.com isn't an accepted website for calculating Metacritic scores).

Getting it out there and recognised is difficult, but only selling the games through obscure channels most gamers have never heard of (e.g. Matrix.com, Slitherine.com, and occasionally Gamersgate.com) makes it practically impossible.

Also, nothing drives a modern gamer away faster than two deficiencies: (1) Horrible graphics, where it doesn't have to look like Crysis but at least needs to present a clean unified style (I'm pretty sure the FCRS maps were done in MS Paint; and (2) Unintuitive user interface (UI), because the challenge is supposed to be in playing the game, not navigating the UI like it's Myst.

[Mad Russian]

If you had read anything about the game graphics you would know the maps were done in HexDraw. Intentionally.

Good Hunting.

MR

[TigerTC]

I am not an eye candy type of guy and love hex wargames, but even I was turned off a little by the clunky movement the first time I saw a preview video of the game. I still bought it and play it regularly, with no regrets, but I think making the game a little prettier and a little smoother would give it more curb appeal.

I personally don't care that much and love the game, but the question is about what would make it sell better. And frankly, the graphics are a negative to your potential audience.

One other thing I would like tweaked -- during the replay, I wish there were more controls to stop and rewind the replay. And the PBEM replay, where I have to watch the units reset themselves, could be fixed.

[CapnDarwin]

We are working to improve the basic map graphics, but we'll never be as pretty as the hand drawn stuff. There are some new map markers being made that look real good and more inline with where we are heading for 2.1.

As for the replay and rewinds, please add your thoughts and details in the new Ideas sub-forum so we can catch them for 2.1 and beyond.

Thanks.

[MikeAP]

Any chance we would see smoother unit movement. It would be nice to see continuous smooth movement versus the intermittent movement we have now

[CapnDarwin]

MikeAP, that is a tough one. We have a very low dx7 capable graphics engine to support the low end machines. Move speeds are also a function of your CPU, gpu, drivers, load from the scenario etc. At some point we will need to jump up the engine, but there is no date for that. It would require a hearty overhaul of pretty much every graphics based function. Noted as a request though. May be worth posting a thread in the Features and Ideas sub-forum.

[Ron]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

If you had read anything about the game graphics you would know the maps were done in HexDraw. Intentionally.

Good Hunting.

MR

I still do not understand the resistance/justification/explanations bla bla bla from you. Face it, most wargamers(your audience) felt the graphics really were sub par, not just by industry standards, but by wargame standards. Get over it and move on. That said, I applaud the work Plodder has been doing - sub him out asap!

[Mad Russian]

There is no resistance, justification from me. I'm simply explaining what we chose to do and how. We also chose to make the game, maps moddable so that those with a more advanced skill set than we have could create what we didn't/couldn't. As has also been explained a myriad of times, we are constantly looking to see where we want to take the maps.

While you may well really like one modders work not everyone may agree with your assessment of it. With the idea that we have to hit as close to the mark, with as many of our customers as possible, and not just one, we will continue working in that direction.

In the meantime, we put a folder in the game that allows you to easily use any of the mods that you prefer.

The alternative would have been the same 4 map set that was done for FPG. I think it's time we did a poll to see who prefers the 25+ maps I created for the game that are 'supremely sub-par' compared to 4 very pretty maps, and see what the result of that poll will be.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Ron]

MadRussian - Well your last sentence contradicts the first and pretty much confirms what I said, and the 4 vs 25 really is a dishonest comparison. The Plodders and others have proved that. As for the part of 'hit as close to the mark, with as many of our customers as possible', I think this poll and comments answer what customers want to see improved.

[CapnDarwin]

Ron, the 4 vs 25+ is the actual fact. More facts. One, we decided as a team to go with mapping scheme we did to have more maps. Two, we did not at the time and even now, have the time and talent to make maps like these guys are doing now. Three, being the one who did the map art in a way for our map value reader would work, the was a limit to color selection and resolution. Four, almost a year in, and the number of new maps is three and only one is released with an fp9 file. Five, Plodder is using a dummy map with our target colors to run through the map values editor to save time from the hand entry of the 4000 - 5000 values on a map of standard size. I could go on, but the reality is we made a lot of maps, they are functional, I'll freely admit not pretty, but they work. We are looking at a couple of options to improve the look to the base maps going forward, but we have to be able to fit in any changes to the schedule we have for the next game. As Steve points out, we made the game very mod friendly so others could make the content fit their style and if you don't like something there is a way to replace it. I'm very happy we have a number of talented moders doing content for the game and that others are enjoying it.

[Plodder]

Ron, you're being very unfair to OTS.

I wish people would stop comparing my output compared to MR's and the Capn, I've been making maps since January this year and have only managed to produce 14 maps. Those take me a long time to make, up to 30-40 hours per map, and those are just re-skins. Creating a map from scratch takes even longer, I've put that many hours into my Berlin map already and I'm not even half way yet.(William's maps are quicker to produce as he uses a program to render the maps using the map data but even then someone has to create the map data first). That's a long time especially since I work split shifts on a 4 day on/4 day off cycle with the mrs. working the other 4, and we also have 3 children under 5 yrs who keep us busy.

The OTS guys work full-time and have families as well so I have no problems with the implementation of the maps, the fact they have put a system in place that lets us mod the game to our heart's content is awesome. I agree the the basic map graphics could do with a facelift, but they are not that bad really, they just need some tweaking.