Panzer Lehr just sits there

[decaro]

Playing as the Axis in Race to Bastogne, I noticed my units wouldn't exit the map.
And in several other scenarios from either side in both BftB and HttR, I noticed that the presence of any enemy unit -- no matter how small -- would deprive my units of occupying their objective and not gaining any VPs from it.

Has anyone else noticed this under the latest official patch?

[Phoenix100]

I think it's always been the case that you have to completely control the exit point and approaches to be able to exit units, no, Joe? There have been many postings about perceived problems with that, over the years. I just played through Elasson Reargaurd many times and it was always necessary to make sure the exit was clear. I had 2 Bns parked on it and the approach of one company to within 500 metres was enough to halt exit efforts. I also got a message once that I didn't understand - something like '2 Pz Div is not strong enough to fulfil its exit order'. But it did go on to exit happily enough. As ever, to determine whether it's a coding issue I guess you would have to provide saves from before, and maybe after, otherwise difficult to gauge exactly what's going on. Someone in here might know what exactly the exit control conditions are though. I don't...

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

I think it's always been the case that you have to completely control the exit point and approaches to be able to exit units ...

I had the entire Lehr battle group sitting on the exit while it stretched along a route just NW of Bastogne without a single Allied unit in sight.
If that isn't complete control, I don't know what is.

[Arjuna]

Have you tried saving the game, surrendering and then checking to see if there is an actual enemy there. You may not have detected them.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Have you tried saving the game, surrendering and then checking to see if there is an actual enemy there. You may not have detected them.

Would you believe that after surrendering and then enlarging the area I discovered that one solitary and very depleted Allied engineer unit -- with 1 deuce and a half and 1 M1 .30 cal -- held up the exit of no less than 30 Axis units composed of everything from armor to arty.

I think there's a direct correlation between exiting and occupying both being prevented by the presence of limited enemy units.

[Phoenix100]

No doubt you've read that account of the single soviet tank holding up an entire German division for two days, Joe? It's a good read. It's in that compilation 'Small Unit Actions' published by DOA, amongst other places. But that was a tank. I wonder that your armour couldn't knock out the halftrack. But maybe they were in column and you hadn't ticked 'attacks', thus limiting their options?

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

No doubt you've read that account of the single soviet tank holding up an entire German division for two days, Joe? It's a good read. It's in that compilation 'Small Unit Actions' published by DOA, amongst other places. But that was a tank. I wonder that your armour couldn't knock out the halftrack. But maybe they were in column and you hadn't ticked 'attacks', thus limiting their options?

There's no armor on a deuce and a half: it's a 2 1/2 ton truck.
And I don't think a single M1 is going to stop Panzer Lehr either; in fact, the Axis units were sitting on the exit point apparently shooting at the Engineers.

[wodin]

Not sure they will exit if in combat.

[Phoenix100]

I think you're right, Jason, but why couldn't PzLehr take care of a single Eng unit? Like I asked, Joe - were they all strung out in column along the approach (limited firepower on the target) and had you ticked 'attack' on the Exit command, so that they had the option to mount an attack if necessary? If not then all that happens is that they follow your order - to Exit - but find that a condition isn't met allowing them to do so (they're engaged, perhaps)so they just sit there waiting for your next order, or the condition to be met of its own accord. I doubt in their exit formation that they could get many guns to bear on the obstruction without running up against the constraints of your original order. BUt if you had ticked 'attack' then they could pause the Exit order, deal with the threat by an attack then resume their exit.

Post a pic, Joe.

[dazkaz15]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Playing as the Axis in Race to Bastogne,
And in several other scenarios from either side in both BftB and HttR, I noticed that the presence of any enemy unit -- no matter how small -- would deprive my units of occupying their objective and not gaining any VPs from it.

Has anyone else noticed this under the latest official patch?

For more info about small units preventing the securing of an objective see here:

tm.asp?m=3517890

This is the key section of the entire thread:

ORIGINAL: simovitch


Edit: According to Dave there is an additional condition that players should be made aware of regarding hold-outs effecting control near a victory location... there is also an additional condition in that there is not enemy at the location of the objective - ie within 300m. IIRC I added this to prevent objectives flipping to achieved and then the force moving on leaving the enemy still at the objective.

So you need to dislodge the holdouts at least away from the proximity of the "flag"

[dazkaz15]

In practice this means you have to detach a unit to patrol the objective, to ensure it is free from enemy units, if the flag does not flip to your side.

This would also be a good idea for any exit objectives as well, especially as there is no flag indicator on exit objectives to show you have ownership of it.
Maybe its something that could be added to Command Ops 2?

[Phoenix100]

Thanks for the Simovitch quote about the flags, Daz. I'd missed that. V useful. I'm sure that was what was going on for JoeD.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Not sure they will exit if in combat.

Well, combat ended with the destruction of the Allied unit, but Lehr still sat there for hours on end, as did another group near Roulette.
Has anyone been able to exit units under the latest official patch?
It doesn't seem to be working for me.

I have both Cmd Ops BftB and HttR with the required conversion packs.

[Arjuna]

Is this scenario being played with the latest patch ie 4.6.279? I did make changes to the disband assessment code that should lead to small units like that disbanding. 

[BigDuke66]

On a different scenario exiting on an objective worked, I also had the clear the objective but then more and more units of the formations I ordered to exit actually did exit.
I'm not sure but do units still exit even when the maximum AP/AArm/Bomb. is reached?

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Is this scenario being played with the latest patch ie 4.6.279? I did make changes to the disband assessment code that should lead to small units like that disbanding. 

Yes, I'm running version 4.6.279 and the engineer unit didn't disband until sometime after 1 truck and 1 rifle was left. But even after it disbanded, none of my units ever exited the game at two separate points on the Western edge of the map.

[simovitch]

If you gave orders to the Division HQ then exiting will be problematic as the HQ tries to account for every attached unit.

[wodin]

This is the memoir it's from.

Panzer Operations by E Raus


BOOK

ORIGINAL: phoenix

No doubt you've read that account of the single soviet tank holding up an entire German division for two days, Joe? It's a good read. It's in that compilation 'Small Unit Actions' published by DOA, amongst other places. But that was a tank. I wonder that your armour couldn't knock out the halftrack. But maybe they were in column and you hadn't ticked 'attacks', thus limiting their options?

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

If you gave orders to the Division HQ then exiting will be problematic as the HQ tries to account for every attached unit.

Since when has it been "problematic" for a division to follow the orders of its own HQ???
And it appears that every attached unit is at the exit point.

[Phoenix100]

I've had no problems exiting, also in a different scenario. But I do reissue the orders if they don't get actioned within about half an hour. And in the case of exiting I have found that it's much quicker if you give orders to individual Bns. I believe (did I read this somewhere?) that the program will only exit to the required max.

I might play through Race for Bastogne again - it's a great scenario - but it will take me about a week to get as far as the exits, Joe. A week of real time, I mean.