Disappearing Resources??!!

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Capt Cliff
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Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

I recently started a new game, solitaire, with version 1.7.1123x4 5/16/2014. At the start of the game the Japanese have approximately 4 to 5 million resources in the home islands. Well I was playing along when I noticed in early January of 1942 that Tokyo had no resources!! WT...? So I looked around and found that Hakodate had 900k resourses, it starts with like 40k. What the .... how did the supply get there?? I continued to play starting convoys to Hakodate. Now it is 3/1/1942 and I have less than 500k resources total in the home islands. But then I look at the scenario turn one and found that Osaka also starts with 900k and that simple disappeared!! I do not have any early turn save games.

Has any one seen this problem?? Will stock piling resources stop this migration of supply? I checked my previous game I started, with a way earlier version, and in April 8 of 1942 the home island still had up to 3 million resource points. Can we players have a save game editor?? I do not want to start another game only to have all the supply in the Japanese home islands disappear!!
Capt. Cliff
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JeffroK
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by JeffroK »

Save game editor is a great idea, I've a couple of CV's I need to ressurect.

Do you use Tracker, it may help to explain.
Some would be usage, have you ramped up anything??

Hokkaido increases as it has a number of bases which produce resources. I set up CS convoys here and to Sakhalin Is.

Historically, the japanese went to war to get more Oil & Resources (Tin, Rubber, Coal, Nickel etc etc)
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
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msieving1
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by msieving1 »

Are you asking about supply or resources? You use the terms interchangeably, but they refer to different things.
-- Mark Sieving
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Capt Cliff
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

Resource, that you combine with fuel to make supply at HI factories. An as I stated in another game, a previous game, in April 42 I had 3 million resources in the home islands. But with this newer game and a newer revision in March 42 I barely have a million in all cities. No way I consumed 3 million resources in 90 days. Also to teleporting of resources to Hakodate means something is wonky.
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Gaspote
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Gaspote »

It's depending if you play scen 2 or scen 1. Scen 2 got a lot of ressource but scen1 don't.
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Capt Cliff
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

It's depending if you play scen 2 or scen 1. Scen 2 got a lot of ressource but scen1 don't.

The scenario I was playing had plenty of supply. I opened the scenario in the editor and the home islands had 4 million plus resource points on 12/7/41 ... but by 3/1/42 it was down to less than 1 million. It just plain disappeared.
Capt. Cliff
Alfred
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Alfred »

There is no mystery here.  There are no disappearing resource points here.  There is no need to look up Tracker.  there is no need for a saved game editor which would allow for cheating and hence will never be produced by the devs.  The resource points are all being used up in producing supply.
 
A reduction of 3,000,000 resource points in 90 days indicates a daily shortfall between supply and demand of 33,333 resource points.
 
Depending on which scenario it is, in order to run their HI and LI at full pace, Tokyo and Osaka have a daily shortfall of 82,600 and 61,900 resource points respectively.
 
Throw in some unnecessary resource stockpiling in some bases, plus failure to institute a proper import resource convoy system from both Hokkaido and the external territories, and perhaps an expansion of industry which would increase the demand for resources further, together with any specific changes peculiar to this unnamed scenario, and presto, absolutely no mystery.
 
Alfred
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Capt Cliff
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is no mystery here.  There are no disappearing resource points here.  There is no need to look up Tracker.  there is no need for a saved game editor which would allow for cheating and hence will never be produced by the devs.  The resource points are all being used up in producing supply.

A reduction of 3,000,000 resource points in 90 days indicates a daily shortfall between supply and demand of 33,333 resource points.

Depending on which scenario it is, in order to run their HI and LI at full pace, Tokyo and Osaka have a daily shortfall of 82,600 and 61,900 resource points respectively.

Throw in some unnecessary resource stockpiling in some bases, plus failure to institute a proper import resource convoy system from both Hokkaido and the external territories, and perhaps an expansion of industry which would increase the demand for resources further, together with any specific changes peculiar to this unnamed scenario, and presto, absolutely no mystery.

Alfred

All well and good Alfred but please explain how in my previous game, under a different game version, there were 3 million plus resource point in the home islands in April of 1942, but less than 1 million in March of 1942 in my current game? Hmmm??? Please do explain! I do so want to hear it!

Oh, an Alfred can you tell me how 900k resources got moved to Hakodate without any convoy's doing it?
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HansBolter
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff
ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is no mystery here.  There are no disappearing resource points here.  There is no need to look up Tracker.  there is no need for a saved game editor which would allow for cheating and hence will never be produced by the devs.  The resource points are all being used up in producing supply.

A reduction of 3,000,000 resource points in 90 days indicates a daily shortfall between supply and demand of 33,333 resource points.

Depending on which scenario it is, in order to run their HI and LI at full pace, Tokyo and Osaka have a daily shortfall of 82,600 and 61,900 resource points respectively.

Throw in some unnecessary resource stockpiling in some bases, plus failure to institute a proper import resource convoy system from both Hokkaido and the external territories, and perhaps an expansion of industry which would increase the demand for resources further, together with any specific changes peculiar to this unnamed scenario, and presto, absolutely no mystery.

Alfred

All well and good Alfred but please explain how in my previous game, under a different game version, there were 3 million plus resource point in the home islands in April of 1942, but less than 1 million in March of 1942 in my current game? Hmmm??? Please do explain! I do so want to hear it!

Oh, an Alfred can you tell me how 900k resources got moved to Hakodate without any convoy's doing it?

He most definitely could if you would bother to clarify which scenarios you are playing. Others have pointed out the differences between scenario 1 & 2. Was one game perhaps scen 1 while the other was scen 2. If not and they are the same scenario, did you remember to set up resource convoys in one and forget to do so in the other?

I have often taken Alfred to task for his insulting and condescending manner (never worse or more caustic than mine was before I became reformed which is the reason why I bother to chide him about his mannerisms), but I will never dispute his comprehensive knowledge of the game.

You would be well to do the same.
Hans

wdolson
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by wdolson »

Material (oil, resources, supply, and fuel) move by rail and between ports that are adjacent. This allows material to flow all around the home islands. For some reason the game engine was transferring resources between Ominato and Hakedate. I would have to observe a saved game run in the debugger to know for sure, there are a lot of reasons.

As someone else explained, different scenarios have different tweaks to the Japanese economy. In a mod, factories and refineries can use different levels of input and produce different levels of output. Different scenarios start with different numbers of factories and different levels of materials on hand. Thus the rate at which Japan will exhaust its at start material without intervention will vary dramatically from scenario to scenario, even in the official scenarios.

Without knowing what scenarios you're talking about those who are trying to help you can't give you anything more than generalities. This forum does occasionally get rude and obnoxious, but generally the people here are very helpful if you give them enough information so that can answer your questions. You are asking about a system with a lot of variables.

Bill

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Capt Cliff
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

Scenario number 6, December 8th Full Campaign. An yes a saved game would be nice but I did not immediately see when the resources moved to Hakodate, also Hakodate could not produce 900k resources in such a short time, and I really only have the February save games which will yield nothing. I seem to have tracked down where all the resources went. I now have 440k HI points in my pool! But funny I should also have a bunch of supply but I don't see that. I am still perplexed how a previous game I had 3 million resource points in April of 42, and yes it is the same scenario. Boy it sure would be nice to have better control over the Japanese industry. Factories should have more than just on and off ... say 1/4 power, 1/2, 3/4 for resource consumption. This allows HI to produce some supply. The industrial screen should also list total supply created, like they do for HI and LI. IMHO ...
Capt. Cliff
pws1225
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by pws1225 »

I've played the Japanese side exclusively for several years and have never seen abnormalities in the flow of resources, fuel, oil, and supply. I expect that Alfred is right and there is an external factor impacting what you have observed. I would suggest revisiting your resource convoy assignments to determine the cause of the situation you are observing.

Regards, Paul
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msieving1
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by msieving1 »

Oh, an Alfred can you tell me how 900k resources got moved to Hakodate without any convoy's doing it?

In the DBB scenario that I'm playing with, the island of Hokkaido has 2000 resource factories, 240 light industry factories, and 90 heavy industry factories. I think Scenario 6 is the pretty much the same. So Hokkaido is producing 40,000 resource points per day, and consuming 5,400 resource points per day, a net gain of 34,600 resource points per day. By March 1, 1942, you would have accumulated about 2.8 million resource points in Hokkaido, assuming you don't ship any of it out. It's no surprise that 900,000 of that ends up in Hakodate.

There are a lot of resources in Hokkaido, but you need to ship them to Honshu before they can do you any good.

-- Mark Sieving
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EHansen
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by EHansen »

In Scenario 6 Hokkaido starts with 580,800 resources. It produces 40,000 per day and uses 5,400 per day. That means that an additional 34,600 per day are accruing in the bases of Hokkaido.

Now I believe that 30 x 34,600 = 1,038,000 resources per month. So starting at December 8, 1941, by Jan 8, 1942 you should have a total of 1,618,800 resources in Hokkaido. So I assume that either some of your resource centers quit producing or you moved out about 700,000.

As for the other three islands, Honshu, Shikoku, and Kyushu, they start with 5,080,800 resources. They produce 157,800 per day and use 236,900 per day for a total shortfall of 79,100. So, for 30 days you have a shortfall of 30 x 79,100 = 2,373,000 leaving about 2,707,800.

All of this is assuming you made no changes to your production at all. Since you have not disclosed what if anything you did, I can not provide any more insight.
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Capt Cliff
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

I made no changes to my production, it was so early in the game and I had plenty when I started, and I had no convoy's running due to the abundance of supply. This is an FYI posting ... if what I encountered was an anomaly then so be it. But the influx of 900k resources into Hakodate is troubling."... what you saw was swamp gas reflecting off a weather balloon ... "
Capt. Cliff
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msieving1
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by msieving1 »

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

I made no changes to my production, it was so early in the game and I had plenty when I started, and I had no convoy's running due to the abundance of supply. This is an FYI posting ... if what I encountered was an anomaly then so be it. But the influx of 900k resources into Hakodate is troubling."... what you saw was swamp gas reflecting off a weather balloon ... "

It's not an anomaly, it's perfectly normal. The resources produced at Sapporo and Kushiro tend to flow to Hakodate because Hakodate is the largest port on Hokkaido. (You'll also find fairly large amounts of resources at Sapporo and Kushiro, and smaller amounts at all other ports on Hokkaido.) Everything is working as intended. You need to get some convoys going to move the resources produced on Hokkaido to Honshu where they can do you some good.
-- Mark Sieving
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Capt Cliff
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RE: Disappearing Resources??!!

Post by Capt Cliff »

Ok ... thanks guys! Seems the mystery is solved ... I think.
Capt. Cliff
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