Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

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Erik Rutins
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Erik Rutins »

Ok, we've decided to hold off one more day to make sure we are all 100% on the same page here. This confusion should not have happened in an ideal world, but unfortunately it appears we had a few different communication channels going and some of the messages did not get to everyone. I'm going to try to reach Dave for a chat this evening. If everything is still a go, we will release as official tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Erik Rutins »

Ok, we have the converted data packs from Dave and we're planning to go ahead with the official update release (the Data Packs will be available separately in the Members Club) today.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
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captskillet
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by captskillet »

thanks for the update, does this mean the Med scenarios are to be released also?
"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest

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Phoenix100
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Phoenix100 »

Med scenarios are next to be finalised, I believe, Captskillet, but we will be paying for them - a separate product - this is a patch for the main engine, plus converted data for the packs already released (Greece and HTTR). I think the work on this patch has delayed the necessary work on the med pack. I'm really looking forward to the med pack too. Any ETA on it, Dave (or Erik)?

Excellent news, Erik. Thanks.
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captskillet
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by captskillet »

Dave since the final patch is out how long till Med scenario pack is ready?
"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest

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navwarcol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by navwarcol »

I must admit to being rather curious what happened with this. I am uncertain why a poll was even bothered with if its result was going to be disregarded. I say that, as one who myself voted for the result we have now, but also as one who saw "my side" lose the vote, and then in one of the strangest flurries of miscommunication I have probably ever seen, on a forum at least, the "beta" was sent to Matrix, then, suddenly was not, then suddenly a full patch came out, in such a record time that one could deduce that indeed, that had always been the plan even before the "poll" was put up.
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dazkaz15
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by dazkaz15 »

Have you found any problems with the game since the latest update navwarcol?
I haven't had time to play much, myself.
Only managed a very quick scenario from the Greek pack, but haven't come across any problems so far.
I must say its nice to be able to play the expansion packs again, without having to configure them.

I know simovitch was playing quite a bit while working on a fix for the basics resupply problem, so maybe they were happy enough with the in house testing they were doing, to release it as a full update?
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Phoenix100 »

16 to 14 is hardly a ringing mandate, anyway. And maybe they had a secret quorum - say 50 votes minimum. Or maybe they required a two thirds majority for the decision. [;)]I would say that the votes of 30 people, roughly split down the middle, wouldn't have been much use in assisting Dave in making the decision. And I assume the game is healthier than the numbers suggest (I hope so...). Maybe if 300 people had bothered to vote and only 14 of them wanted a final then I would have been surprised that we got a final!

I've played a fair bit on it and all I've noticed that might be down to code is that units sometimes get locked up, in a variety of situations (on the march, in the middle of combat). But it hasn't bothered me because I'm playing slow and if the order isn't going to plan after about half an hour I just issue a different order. That usually works. (I pretend to myself that the commander in question cracked, got holed up with a bottle of whiskey and I was summonsed to deal with it. I drive there, replace him and move on....) Most lock-ups can be instantly broken with a Fire order, followed by a slightly different order that achieves roughly the desired result. And I'd like CO2 now, to be honest, and not to spend another year looking at little bugs. If there's any big bugs I haven't seen them yet. I think it's looking really good now. Enjoying playing it. Especially enjoying Chris's platoon scenarios at the moment, but I'm also in the middle of Race for Bastogne and Epsom.
navwarcol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by navwarcol »

I just now (well.. when I wrote the above) actually had the time to download the patch and play... I do like the patch, and do not see any issues that would be show stoppers. I guess my reason for what I wrote was just how weird that whole few days seemed to go... but yes, I had voted for a "final patch" a long time ago, and moving on to the Med, and CO2... so my feelings are not the least bit hurt by it [8D]
Repsol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Repsol »

Hello...

just did a quick test move in a scenario to see how things looked...

I'm affraid this ended in dissapointment !

Like many times before when i have made some quick test with this game the HQ takes an entirely different path to the objective (not following in the path of the line units).

This puts me off from playing this game i'm sorry to say.

Image[/img]

The lineunits used the red path to reach to attack objective and the HQ used the green path (through unscouted enemy territory)...

Phoenix100
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Phoenix100 »

Wow. I've never, ever seen anything like that. That would put me off too. It's Mayhem on the Meuse, right? Where are all the other units? Did you make a test scenario with just those units (I assume not, since then there wouldn't be any 'enemy' territory to qualify as 'unscouted', since no enemy.) So what was the trigger for the HQ to route so oddly? I'm afraid I can't even see what the units are in your pic. Can you attach the pic? I'm two thirds through a scenario with a Corps strength force - many HQs, many, many moves of all different types, into and around enemy territory - and this has never happened. How did you get it to do that? There's a river, I see. Are your line units fording it and on foot, whilst your HQ has wheels and has to go round? Even if that explained it, it would still be mad, of course.
Repsol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Repsol »

hello, Phoenix...

I'm very pressed for time right now...sorry !

But i did a quick test again and the result were the same...

Tomorrow i will try it again and make some saved games and some more pictures if that could help...
jimcarravall
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by jimcarravall »

ORIGINAL: Repsol

Hello...

just did a quick test move in a scenario to see how things looked...

I'm affraid this ended in dissapointment !

Like many times before when i have made some quick test with this game the HQ takes an entirely different path to the objective (not following in the path of the line units).

This puts me off from playing this game i'm sorry to say.

Image[/img]

The lineunits used the red path to reach to attack objective and the HQ used the green path (through unscouted enemy territory)...


HQ units, whose role in a World War II era battle is less engaging in combat and more for coordinating the activities of line units involved in combat, should normally avoid enemy contact where they can determine the location of the enemy and define a safer route to their optimum location for controlling the combat units under their command.

There was an earlier complaint that HQs tended to lead the charge during an attack instead of waiting in the rear for the line units under their command to lead.

My guess is that in resolving that complaint, there was some consideration given to making HQs (rightfully) avoid direct fire as much as practically possible (BN HQs will get closer to FLOT than Rgt HWQ's for example), particularly when in a movement mode which makes them most vulnerable to destruction from direct fire.

More important than the line those HQs may take to reach an optimum position to control their subordinates, did you notice any diminishing of the HQ's ability to coordinate its subordinates because it took a different path to its final location?




Take care,

jim
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Arjuna
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Arjuna »

Re Beta or Final. I want to apologise for the way this was handled. It was a classic case of miscommunication between myself and Matrix. I did intend for build 279 to go out as a public beta. I had uploaded it onto our Panther Dev Files site for the internal beta testers and was asked by Matrix if this was to go out officially. I said yes, assuming this would be an official public beta release. Then nothing happened for a couple of weeks and I tried over the next two weeks to get it released. Finally I was told that it was going to be released as a final patch and I took the view that it was better to get it out than wait even more time for it to be changed back into a beta release. I misinterpreted what Matrix meant by "official". So that part of the debacle is down to me. Sorry for that. 
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Repsol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Repsol »

Hello...

I have tried this again.

The first time everything worked as expected. Se below...

scenario start...

Image[/img]

My order...

Image[/img]

Move to the FUP...

Image[/img]

AI tasks...

Image[/img]

Succsesful HQ movement path...

Image[/img]

Repsol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Repsol »

In the second (failed) attempt i placed to objective location a very small distance further to the right and this time the result were the same as with my initial test...

Orderplacement...

Image[/img]

HQ movement path (not a good one)...

Image[/img]

Her the HQ moves along alone in enemty territory on its way to the objective....

Image[/img]

I have saved files of both the succesful attempt and the failed one if these could help but i don't know how to attach them ?

Phoenix100
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Phoenix100 »

Thanks Repsol. It must be an unintended event, I assume. If Dave is still tweaking this game then he will ask you for saves, most likely, but I'm not sure whether the devs have all moved on from this now. Which would leave us having to find a workaround. I suppose it would be necessary to check the AI tasking once they've moved up to the FUP and if it's crazy then issue another order. I wonder if changes to the attack parameters would help? What did you set? Quickest, fastest? Stragglers and Basing ticked? Just wondering what needs to be changed. I suppose that depends upon what the HQ thinks it is doing. I don't think that Jim's idea about whether it can still command its units really helps because this kind of behaviour would lead in many circumstances to HQs and line units being separated and surrounded. For myself I have found that with the new code (to stop HQs taking part in assaults) it is best to have only a short distance between FUP and attack point (I mean as short as a kilometre)if you want to ensure that the group doesn't end up in difficulties in the heat of battle. For instance, in the pic below. The FUP for the attack of the 559 was back at the crossroads behind the HQs present position, the attack point was a bit further on from where the line units have ended up, down in the railway valley. Maybe 2km, maybe less. But they're in trouble now. I can't get the unit to function sensibly together and regroup because there's enemy between the HQ and line units. I will have to give separate commands to unite them, moving them in different directions.

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Repsol
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Repsol »

I put aggro, ROF, losses, ammo, basics, fuel to MAX and Rest to NONE

Other then that i did not change anything...

Yes...some kind of workaround will be possible i guess. Make alot of saved games and reload if something strange happens and do some minor tweaks and try again could work i guess.

Not a perfect solution though...




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Arjuna
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by Arjuna »

Yes we have moved onto Cmd Ops 2 development. But Repsol, my tired eyes can't see the HQ's move type from your images. Is it motorised or leg? If it's motorised then one possible cause could be the fact that you are trying to set its location onto what looks like a track in woods. Now if you miss the track but get some passable terrain nearby then it could have real problems trying to find a valid path to it. Zoom the map in and use the right mouse button to bring up the actual terrain at mouse pointer. Is the objective you set on a track or not? You need to be careful when assigning motorised units to locations within terrain they normally could not enter.
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RE: Another Beta Build or Final Patch

Post by navwarcol »

I was guessing also from the pictures that it was something to do with the objective being in the woods as well. The other units would appear to be motorized as well however.. so it made me curious if the game models crowding conditions as far as that, and perhaps as the "last one in", the HQ has to effectively find another path because of the transit through a bike trail, at best, through the forest...
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