AI Improvement Mod (1.05 Extended Release)

Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario, art and sound modding and the game editor for Distant Worlds.

Moderators: elliotg, Icemania

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t1it
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by t1it »

Unfortunately, I don't have any save game of that session [:o]
But they had 3 different capital ship designs, all with non-shaktur firestorms, a cruiser design - dito. Think only the frigate & escort designs had their special weapon. I'm actually not sure they had researched velocity shard or terminator autocannon...IIRC correctly, they had not. Looked to me they had only researched their special weapon as the only weapon focus. So Idk what was going.
My setting was Huge 1400 stars / 15 x 15 sectors, pre-warp, restless, hard difficulty, no pirates and the rest normal.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

All I can say wasa is that I've checked the design templates as well as the research orders and builds in-game.

Please keep in mind hard difficulty will make life tougher for the race you are playing on full auto.

I'm sure there are some errors particularly given I'm still tinkering so please let me know if you get more information so I can fault find.
xepooqu80
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by xepooqu80 »

Awesome work and ready to test the new version!

Btw though i would strongly recommend to use Icemania's file i did a little exercise and trying to adapt DW Extended files to make it compatible:

Procedure is simple - use it at your risk if you can't play without dw extended for some reason (of course Extended race do not benefit from Icemania's work yet)
Install DW Extended mod
Copy over and overwrite with Icemania file
replace components.txt and research.txt with those (link removed)
NO guarantees it will work for you, again i recommend you just use Icemania's file for testing

EDIT: Upon further testing it allows the game to launch but there are incompatibilities, link have been removed

Regarding the mod itself i am trying a test game with Quameno and they are doing great!
@Icemania i see there is lot of focus In Energy for Shields and Reactor and none for Hyperdrives,Engine,Thruster.. in your experience isn't a faster hyperdrive at least an asset?
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Darkspire
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Darkspire »

Have you done any work with the Pirate templates?

Darkspire

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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

I plan to but just some tinkering at this stage e.g. I put a few of the new ship templates in the Pirate templates just to check it worked. I do worry that the extra maintenance costs of the larger ship may create a handicap for the Pirates. Have you done some testing here Darkspire?





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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: acantoni
i see there is lot of focus In Energy for Shields and Reactor and none for Hyperdrives,Engine,Thruster.. in your experience isn't a faster hyperdrive at least an asset?
These technologies run a couple of tiers behind. There is research in those fields to mid-tier technology but it is later in the research queue. It really becomes a judgement call on what provides the greater benefit and when. That said I'm still tinkering with the orders so if you think a change will improve the AI by all means let me know why in comparison to what would need to be dropped down the queue.

The research orders are customised by race to ensure special technologies get the appropriate focus, to focus on their weapons preference, and to reflect their wonder focus. For example, the Dhayut get their special VelocityDrive soon after Size 500 Construction Research is complete etc.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

I'm having a tinker with the Bias files.

My current idea is to increase positive and negative biases (without going overboard) with the races split into 4 groups (ensuring each group uses a variety of weapons).

By increasing the positive biases for races within a group they are more likely to form Mutual Defence Pacts. With the changes to fleet coordination in Universe this should mean more mega fleet battles.

Each group has negative biases set against another group, so they are more likely to go to war i.e. Group 1 v Group 2, Group 3 v Group 4. I've had to many games in the past where nobody declared war even on Chaos throughout the entire game. So now, if you decide to take a back seat and your partners go down, you could then be facing a strong alliance of opponents, without as much support ...

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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

The last time I invaded the Ancient Guardian and Shakturi homeworlds I didn't loose a ship. After these upgrades it will be a bit more difficult!!!
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PsyKoSnake
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by PsyKoSnake »

ORIGINAL: Icemania

I'm having a tinker with the Bias files.

My current idea is to increase positive and negative biases (without going overboard) with the races split into 4 groups (ensuring each group uses a variety of weapons).

By increasing the positive biases for races within a group they are more likely to form Mutual Defence Pacts. With the changes to fleet coordination in Universe this should mean more mega fleet battles.

Each group has negative biases set against another group, so they are more likely to go to war i.e. Group 1 v Group 2, Group 3 v Group 4. I've had to many games in the past where nobody declared war even on Chaos throughout the entire game. So now, if you decide to take a back seat and your partners go down, you could then be facing a strong alliance of opponents, without as much support ...


I approve that.

An idea: I think reducing war wearness for each race would be more benefical for the AI.
The best would be normal war wearness for the player and maybe -50% to -75% or 100%(no war wearness at all) for AI. But I dont think there is a way to achieve this easily without going in the race file, for each new game (change your last game race for the new setting and change back to normal setting the one you use in the new game.)

Would be easier for the AI to be in war for a long periode without hurting aproval, economy, etc.

What do you think?

Will help testing your change soon, because I am realy interested to help improving the AI. (Did not play since 3 week)
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

There is no way I can see to do that without also giving the same advantage to a human player of that race or the manual method you've suggested.

Note that I'm not introducing any new artificial advantages for the AI, just helping them to better use what is available.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

I'm extending the Weapons Research Build Orders so that once their Primary Weapons are complete they will research towards Death Rays. For Insert Races that includes Super Lasers so they can eventually build World Destroyers. The exceptions are races that are focused on Gravitics and Missiles/Fighter/Missile Bombers as they already require extra research.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

Screenshot from testing to confirm that with the changes in Policy Files and Research Orders that World Destroyers can be built by Insect Races other than the Shakturi ... in this case the Boskara.
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Icemania
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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: Icemania
ORIGINAL: acantoni
Other observation from a Dhayut game
Weapon research -> Dhayut is beelining towards Impregnable structures and not researching any weapons at all.. they still have "Energy Torpedo WEapons" and "Enhanced Beam WEapons" , that's it: this is putting them at massive firepower disadvantage in my current game
Was that a Prewarp Start? On my Prewarp Tests it's worked. On Standard Starts it doesn't ... I don't understand why yet. As mentioned earlier please focus Prewarp for the moment.
acantoni, it *should* be okay on various starts now, not just pre-warp. I have to ensure the right basic technologies were included in the Research Orders.

Let me know how it goes, looks okay from my test games so far.
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Icemania
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RE: Possible AI Improvement Mod

Post by Icemania »

Completed a test game on Extreme, Pre-Warp Start and Cheap Research ... will all races now upgraded. I ignored the race I was playing as obviously they are at a massive disadvantage to the rest of the Empires. Here were some milestone dates:

After 5 Years
The Quameno finish researching Titans Beams

After 6 Years
The Quameno finish researching Meridium Shields

After 7 Years
The Zenox finish researching Plasma Torpedoes
The Boskara finish researching Shaktur Firestorm (III)
The Teekan finish researching Assault Missiles
The Quameno now have Size 800 ships available

After 8 Years
The Haakonish finish researching Area Graviton Pulse
The Sluken finish researching Massive Rail Guns
2 Wonders are complete and another is under construction
Various homeworlds now have Fortified Bunkers and Armour

After 9 Years
The Ugnari finish researching Advanced Phasers
The Quameno now have Size 1100 ships available

...
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Darkspire
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Darkspire »

ORIGINAL: Icemania

I plan to but just some tinkering at this stage e.g. I put a few of the new ship templates in the Pirate templates just to check it worked. I do worry that the extra maintenance costs of the larger ship may create a handicap for the Pirates. Have you done some testing here Darkspire?

More less hit the nail on the head,
I do worry that the extra maintenance costs of the larger ship may create a handicap for the Pirates.

The pirates need there own root folder with there own faction file, like the races have a folder with the race files in, we only have about half of the tools needed in that we do have race files that they are created from but those race files primarily deal with an empire race, the Pirate factions need there own separate file, having only the policy folder works but is limited as trying to juggle a race file for both is doing no favors to either race or faction.

I am fast approaching the templates and adjusting the policy files for them myself at present, estimate I should be on them in a week or so for all the races, I have to write all the data and code from scratch as the system crash / explosion at the start of the year took the theme and all my data, code and images with it, like nearly three years worth.

When I wrote them before I found them very limiting compared to the Optimized ones in Legends, the Pirates especially, to get any where with them I had to look at them from a whole new angle because of costs, I came up with the idea of looking at them as resistance fighters, make do with anything that is space worthy and bolt on the best weapons as possible with the assault pods added to gain new ships, it is obviously better now with the new settings, the first thing will be to limit the factions to only a few classes and hopefully limit the size so that it relies more on numbers than larger more powerful costly ship types.

Darkspire
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

Wow, sorry you lost all that data Darkspire! I look forward to seeing what you have!

I appreciate the very useful input. To keep costs under control I'm testing the Pirates based on the following:

Escorts & Frigates copy the Empire Escort design (Size 300)
Destroyers & Cruisers copy the Empire Frigate design (Size 400)
Capital Ships copy the Empire Destroyer design (Size 650)
Copy all Empire Private Ship & Mining Stations designs (optimised extractors and more speed which should help them)
Align all other Pirate designs align with the Empire Weapon selection and a general tidy up e.g. remove items they will never realistically research
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

I've just posted the biggest update yet. This version includes upgrades for all races. Refer to the updated OP for details.
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

On July 20th the intent is to release this mod as an Alpha version. At that point I intend to play a game on full manual against the AI on Extreme and see how it goes compared to default. In the meantime I'm going to keep watching the AI and trying to improve what I can and consider any community feedback. The majority of ideas I had in mind are now implemented so other improvement ideas are very welcome. And if I can't do anything with your suggestion, I'm sure Elliot will appreciate having an even longer AI improvement wish list when he returns from holidays!! [;)]

Here is a battle from a test game, notice the fleet firepower ... and it's far from a one-sided fight ... on normal difficulty ...
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danymatrix
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by danymatrix »

IceMania, excelent work men! Please could you integrate your epic mod with Locarnus Balance Tech mod Ext? Locarnus since no signs of life, and really would be great to play with both active mods. Thank you!
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Icemania
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RE: AI Improvement Mod (In Progress)

Post by Icemania »

ORIGINAL: danymatrix
IceMania, excelent work men! Please could you integrate your epic mod with Locarnus Balance Tech mod Ext? Locarnus since no signs of life, and really would be great to play with both active mods. Thank you!
I would be happy to work with Locarnus after the Vanilla AI Improvement Mod is released, but unfortunately Locarnus has clearly stated that he permits no republishing.
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