What is the real status of TOAW?

Norm Koger's The Operational Art of War III is the next game in the award-winning Operational Art of War game series. TOAW3 is updated and enhanced version of the TOAW: Century of Warfare game series. TOAW3 is a turn based game covering operational warfare from 1850-2015. Game scale is from 2.5km to 50km and half day to full week turns. TOAW3 scenarios have been designed by over 70 designers and included over 130 scenarios. TOAW3 comes complete with a full game editor.

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shunwick
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by shunwick »

Have faith.

Best wishes,
Steve
I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...
USXpat
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by USXpat »

An assortment of misquotes from famous people on the subject of TOAW and its future...

I have not yet begun to play TOAW IV! - Captain John Paul (Jones)

The whole history of the Operational Art of War has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired. - Stephen Hawking

Make TOAW IV or Die, Death is not the worst of evils! - General John Stark

If everyone isn't playing TOAW, then somebody isn't thinking. - General George Patton

In all my perplexities and distresses, the Operational Art of War has never failed to give me light and strength. - General Robert E. Lee

Happiness and the Operational Art of War are inseparably connected. - General George Washington

In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has played the Operational Art of War most. - FM Erwin Rommel

It is sometimes tougher to play TOAW than fight the French. - General Heinz Guderian

There are things in the Operational Art of War which are not as they seem. - General Georgy Zhukov

How can anyone play TOAW in a country that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese? - General Charles de Gaulle

Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of players who think you can't continue to attack when at 33% readiness and 1% supply! - Napolean Bonaparte

All the songs we do are basically about one of three things: booze, sex or the Operational Art of War. - Bon Scott

Of all the things I've lost I miss my original copy of Century of Warfare the most. - Ozzy

I invented the Operational Art of War! - Al Gore

For me, it is far better to grasp the Operational Art of War as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

Did I ever tell you you play a very irritating game of TOAW, Mr. Spock? Captain James T. Kirk

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace – but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me The Operational Art of War IV or give me death! - Patrick Henry

When you’re a kid, they tell you it’s all… Grow up, get a job, get married, get a house, have a kid, and that’s it. But the truth is, combat resolution in TOAW is so much stranger than that. It’s so much darker. And so much madder. And so much better. - Doctor Who, Elton Pope, Season 2, Episode 10.

All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: TOAW. - Winston Churchill.

TOAW was, is and always will be to me the best game in the world. - Babe Ruth

I ain't the same person I was when I bit that guy's ear off. - Mike Tyson

Money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing The Game. - Donald Trump

I like TOAW. That's what I'll miss the most... I'm not sure anybody ever liked this as much as I've liked it. - Bill Clinton

I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to see a TOAW IV. - George W. Bush

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BigDuke66
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by BigDuke66 »

Ha excellent!!!
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Lobster
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Lobster »

You forgot this one:

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that plays TOAW with us
Shall be our brothers; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in the world now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they did not play,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That played TOAW with us.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Curtis Lemay »

Two times armed is he whose cause is just, but three times armed is he who’s played TOAW the must – Nate Forrest.

Fat, drunk, and never having played TOAW is no way to go through life, son – Dean Wormer.

May the TOAW be with you – Obi-Wan Kenobi

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning - Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore.

My mama always said life was like a game of TOAW – you never know what you’re going to get – Forrest Gump.

As God is my witness, I’ll never be without TOAW again – Scarlett O’Hara.

You had me at “TOAW” – Dorothy Boyd.

My precious TOAW – Gollum.

You can’t handle TOAW! – Colonel Jessup.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
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shunwick
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by shunwick »

I have come here to chew bubblegum and play TOAW. And I'm all outta bubblegum. - John Nada.

Best wishes,
Steve
I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...
fogger
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by fogger »

You guys are watching too many movies &/or reading books and not playing enough TOAW. [:-]
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walkra
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by walkra »

ORIGINAL: pz501

Well, just speaking for myself, I think there is cause for a very slim hope based on what Erik posted back on 6-13-2014.

Since tomorrow is the first business day after a long weekend, maybe someone from Matrix will comment with something other than a cryptic "soon".

Personally, if there is never to be a TOAW IV (or is it TOAW 4.0?) I'd be satisfied with some official last patch that fixes the AA, supply, and ignore losses problems, AND allows for larger maps with more place names. (I mean a Matrix official patch - I'm aware of the unofficial fixes, and I do use them myself.)

Even if that doesn't happen, I think we all can agree that Norm Koger gave us a great and classic system with TOAW, and Ralph and Matrix did a superb job upgrading it to TOAW III.

If 3.4 is as far as it goes officially, then so be it.
Well, just speaking for myself, I think there is cause for a very slim hope based on what Erik posted back on 6-13-2014.

Since tomorrow is the first business day after a long weekend, maybe someone from Matrix will comment with something other than a cryptic "soon".

Personally, if there is never to be a TOAW IV (or is it TOAW 4.0?) I'd be satisfied with some official last patch that fixes the AA, supply, and ignore losses problems, AND allows for larger maps with more place names. (I mean a Matrix official patch - I'm aware of the unofficial fixes, and I do use them myself.)

Even if that doesn't happen, I think we all can agree that Norm Koger gave us a great and classic system with TOAW, and Ralph and Matrix did a superb job upgrading it to TOAW III.

If 3.4 is as far as it goes officially, then so be it.

I Agree.
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Grognard
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Grognard »

....as above, but, also with a bump to the 2k unit limit. After all these years (and scenarios) - still can't do a proper Rgt level Barbarossa w/o it.........
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Oberst_Klink
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: Grognard

....as above, but, also with a bump to the 2k unit limit. After all these years (and scenarios) - still can't do a proper Rgt level Barbarossa w/o it.........
The FitE2 team is doing just that. There's an AAR about the beta-testing of FitE2, Trooper.

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Grognard
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Grognard »

The FitE2 team is doing just that. There's an AAR about the beta-testing of FitE2, Trooper.

Klink, Oberst

Just read (both of) the AAR's - pretty close mirror of the DNO game I'm playing now (vs Elmer/3XBb). To be clear - FITE 2 raises the unit limit above 2,000 per side ? There must be a different *.exe - yes? What other code changes are there ?

Thanks for the heads up
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: Grognard
The FitE2 team is doing just that. There's an AAR about the beta-testing of FitE2, Trooper.

Klink, Oberst

Just read (both of) the AAR's - pretty close mirror of the DNO game I'm playing now (vs Elmer/3XBb). To be clear - FITE 2 raises the unit limit above 2,000 per side ? There must be a different *.exe - yes? What other code changes are there ?

Thanks for the heads up
FitE2 uses the beta-in-development, not the latest official/un-official (AAA/ignore losses fix) version.

Klink, Oberst
My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.
Numdydar
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Numdydar »

It does seem odd that all these promises about updates and what is going on and then nothing.

Nothing said about the next patch although is was stated as 'soon' a while ago. Then it seemed like a decision was made 'Well instead of a patch, lets make a whole new game!'. Again with no updates.

The annoying thing is apparently 'some' people have access to an update of some kind while us 'normal' people are left out. So it would be REALLY nice for SOMEONE with authority (Erik) to break the 'cone of silence' and provide something.

1. Is there going to be a new patch and when? Just saying sometime this year would be better than nothing.
2. Regardless of 1, is a TOAW IV being developed? Again releasing sometime next year is fine as well.

If there is some issue with 1 and/or 2 just tell us for God's sake. Just say no new patch this year or IV is not being developed, etc. We can handle it [:)] I just do not understand why this silence after all the talk. It would have been better not to say a damn thing in the first place.
pz501
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by pz501 »

This was exactly my point when I began this thread....many new and huge scenarios being worked on (complete with AARs) that only a few people having the beta updates can work with.

Since everything is still "beta", I can understand why no release of a patch so far, but at what point does beta testing end? It's been a VERY long time. Some have suggested a public beta. Might not be a bad idea, but I've got a feeling that's never going to happen.

As far as a "TOAW IV" or whatever it's supposed to be called, we only (we being the masses) have rumors thus far.

Seems to me that someone must know something, but probably due to NDA's can't discuss it.

I wish Matrix would just officially say something other than "soon", even if it's to announce the end of TOAW. I don't see that happening either.

Just look at the status of "Combined Arms" (Battlefields). I think that's where we're at now with TOAW.
ORIGINAL: Numdydar

It does seem odd that all these promises about updates and what is going on and then nothing.

Nothing said about the next patch although is was stated as 'soon' a while ago. Then it seemed like a decision was made 'Well instead of a patch, lets make a whole new game!'. Again with no updates.

The annoying thing is apparently 'some' people have access to an update of some kind while us 'normal' people are left out. So it would be REALLY nice for SOMEONE with authority (Eric) to break the 'cone of silence' and provide something.

1. Is there going to be a new patch and when? Just saying sometime this year would be better than nothing.
2. Regardless of 1, is a TOAW IV being developed? Again releasing sometime next year is fine as well.

If there is some issue with 1 and/or 2 just tell us for God's sake. Just say no new patch this year or IV is not being developed, etc. We can handle it [:)] I just do not understand why this silence after all the talk. It would have been better not to say a damn thing in the first place.
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shunwick
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by shunwick »

ORIGINAL: pz501
Just look at the status of "Combined Arms" (Battlefields). I think that's where we're at now with TOAW

To be fair, TOAW is at least a decade away from being in the same status a Combines Arms: World War II, the game formerly known as Battlefields, the game formerly known as Battleline. And that is not even mentioning the fact that we have a perfectly good working game now.

I understand that the silence is disconcerting. But there is no evidence that TOAW has been abandoned and every evidence that it has not.

Have a little faith.

Best wishes,
Steve
I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...
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Lobster
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

It does seem odd that all these promises about updates and what is going on and then nothing.

Nothing said about the next patch although is was stated as 'soon' a while ago. Then it seemed like a decision was made 'Well instead of a patch, lets make a whole new game!'. Again with no updates.

The annoying thing is apparently 'some' people have access to an update of some kind while us 'normal' people are left out. So it would be REALLY nice for SOMEONE with authority (Erik) to break the 'cone of silence' and provide something.

1. Is there going to be a new patch and when? Just saying sometime this year would be better than nothing.
2. Regardless of 1, is a TOAW IV being developed? Again releasing sometime next year is fine as well.

If there is some issue with 1 and/or 2 just tell us for God's sake. Just say no new patch this year or IV is not being developed, etc. We can handle it [:)] I just do not understand why this silence after all the talk. It would have been better not to say a damn thing in the first place.

I don't recall any promises, only statements and no rock solid release date of any kind. In game company language 'soon' means sometime in the future, possibly the same year as soon was mentioned, more likely in the same decade.

Also, no one said ''Well instead of a patch, lets make a whole new game!'.' nor was it even alluded to. If you would bother to read the threads about that you would know.

The 'some people' that you mention are people working on scenarios that will MOST LIKELY be part of the release. Most likely is emphasized because nothing is written in stone. These people are also 'normal' people and you insult them and their dedication to the game by insinuating that they are somehow not normal.

In answer to your questions #1 and #2, get off your lazy *** and look and read some threads where your questions will be answered. As for me I expect something to be released sometime in the future. Don't know when but eventually.

I do have to agree with all of the moaners and groaners on one point, communication is abysmal. It would be nice if it were like the John Tiller's Campaign Series forum where there is actually a developer's diary instead of the complete lack of information we now have. But then that would be entirely up to Ralph Trick. Perhaps he simply does not have the time.

One more thing. Someone totally unrelated to a game company using their own free time to HACK an executable so it works relatively properly is a far cry from what should be considered a working product. It was a commendable piece of work for certain. [&o]
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Numdydar
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Numdydar »

So you insult me instead. Nice.

How about this quote? this sure seems like a promise to me. This was dated Nov of 2013 btw and yet no updates on this?
ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Patch 3.5 is being actively developed again. We're making some good progress, and I'm hoping we can release it in the January-March time frame.

Two big items are a more complete Naval model and more units, etc. to allow for larger map sizes.

More detail will follow.

Then we have the below. Also dated Nov 2013. About the same time as the note above. So one could make the assumption that more time is being spent on a new version versus a patch. Since as you have stated, there are only a few people working on this. So which are they working the patch or a new game?
ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

We're starting the initial planning for 4.0. I plan to start actively developing it after the 3.5 patch has been released. The plan right now is October 2014, but since we are still in the planning stages, that is very tentative, and is more of something to measure progress against than something realistic. It could easily slip either way.

I'm sure Bob has a complete list of engine changes he wants to do. [&o]

One thing I want to do is to rewrite the UI to allow for a more modern look and feel. The actual map look and operation will stay similar, but I want to be able to do things like pin dialogs on one side, resize the minimap, speed up everything. I also want to allow for smooth zooming or at least a much faster zooming between levels. Modern machines have a lot of memory, and some of that can be traded for speed.

Oh, yes, it's also going to need other changes to allow someone to actually play a huge scenario like Fire in the East in one lifetime! A lot of what I've done so far has been more of a let's see what I can do without a major rewrite and not breaking anything. For 4.0, I want to do a larger rewrite to make the UI more consistent and simpler to learn.

Ralph

Lastly it is obvious I AM reading the threads here and I have not found any answers. So maybe you should quote some threads that have these 'answers' you allude to. If you are referring to the ones above, these do not constitute what I would consider answers.
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Lobster
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Lobster »

I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had a reading comprehension problem. The word hoping does not constitute a promise. Telling someone something may happen but it could slip either way also does not constitute a promise to have something by a particular date. Simply put, no promises were made. I don't see any reason to carry on a useless and pointless conversation. I'm done.
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76mm
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had a reading comprehension problem. The word hoping does not constitute a promise. Telling someone something may happen but it could slip either way also does not constitute a promise to have something by a particular date. Simply put, no promises were made. I don't see any reason to carry on a useless and pointless conversation. I'm done.

Huh? I think that when the devs finally deigned to provide some information about a new patch and 4.0, and then haven't provided any additional information whatsoever after nine months, it is reasonable for customers to ask what is going on.

Whatever the reasons, excuses, etc. I'm gradually losing interest any remaining interest in this one.
Numdydar
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RE: What is the real status of TOAW?

Post by Numdydar »

So I have gotten off my lazy you know what and provided you with quotes about what people actually have said. Since you can't (or are unwilling) to do the same you have to continue to be insulting.

I am sorry that you feel that someone that says Jan - Mar (of 2013) and then complete silence for over 9 months is Ok. I do not. If I told my boss I would likely have something done by a certain date and then never updated them about what was going on, I would not have a job for very long. While I certainly am not the TOW III's devs boss in any way, I do think what is going on here is unacceptable and people should be aware of it.

Why you think they should be given a pass for this behavior is unknown, but considering it would take 5-10 mins of someone's time to post some info, I find it hard to believe what people here are asking for is so burdensome.

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