Lopsided CV battles

[gunny3013]

I have experienced a total failure in a CV battle so one sided it was difficult to believe. All vessels and aircraft are properly configured and attacked their mark. The problem is they never put a scratch on any IJN vessels while the Japanese air strike innihalated my entire CV TF, all this despite me launching twice as many Aircraft than he did. After chaulking it up to an anomaly, I continued play only to have the exact same thing occur a second time some time later. Not a bloody scratch on his futuristic fleet while mine was wiped out to the ship. Anyone else ever have this issue?

[koniu]

Give some data to us.
Combat report, TF composition, Air Group settings. Pilots skills etc.

[JocMeister]

What year(s)?

[HansBolter]

Yes it happens. Both ways although some of us AFBs are incredulous that it ever happens in our favor as the IJN is the one that seems to be blessed most of the time.

I just had a Midway at Noumea this weekend. Sinking 3 IJN CVs and a CVL with one paint scratching bomb hit on the Lady Lex in return. The Japanese had superiority in carriers, but mine were hiding under the cover of 94 land based fighters, 50 of which were dedicated to LRCAP.

This happened in mid June of '42. One of the carriers still had TBDs and two of them still had one squad each of SBD2's.

A CV victory for the Allies is possible in mid '42, but a lot depends on the luck of the weather and making sure the encounter takes place under LBA cover.

[Miller]

Weather is the deciding factor when numbers are roughly even in my experience.

[Itdepends]

Did either fleet have detection on it prior to the battle or was it in range of land based naval search?
<insert appropriate Alfred comment about insufficient information provided by OP here>

[dr.hal]

A brief paragraph description is not really enough to go on.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: koniu

Give some data to us.
Combat report, TF composition, Air Group settings. Pilots skills etc.

This.

My default response, in the absence of actionable information, is that you most likely did not have all vessels and aircraft properly configured. But I'll not launch further conjecture without screen shots of your CVTF configuration, mission profiles of your planes, leadership reviews, weather reports, etc. etc.

[Amoral]

He likely had a high detection level on you. How many of your aircraft are dedicated to search?

[pontiouspilot]

More details pls.

When I play Allies I have rule of thumb....don't use CVs for any action vs. IJN CVs until you have the newer generation of planes.

Could be that you are unlucky in which case I'd love to play you!!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Amoral

He likely had a high detection level on you. How many of your aircraft are dedicated to search?

Well, he did say that he launched twice as many aircraft so DL is not an issue. However, so many other unknowns. Coordination, weather, leaders, date, composition of TF, range, escort and so on. Like said before, you cannot hope to get a qualified answer until you provide qualified data. Screenshots are your friend.. If it is a AI game post the replay file. Somebody here without a life (so many of us) will be glad to look at it for you..[;)]

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Amoral

He likely had a high detection level on you. How many of your aircraft are dedicated to search?

Well, he did say that he launched twice as many aircraft so DL is not an issue. However, so many other unknowns.

Number of aircraft launched is not neccessary an indicator of pre-strike DL. Amoral's point is valid.

That said, I agree with the rest of your post and the other comments.


I have started a CV battle guide a couple of months back, but sadly did not find the time to finish it. It is hidden somewhere in the warroom and the thread contains a lot of valuable poste by other experienced players.

[EHansen]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

More details pls.

When I play Allies I have rule of thumb....don't use CVs for any action vs. IJN CVs until you have the newer generation of planes.

Could be that you are unlucky in which case I'd love to play you!!

Why? I am in December 1942 and I have taken out most of KB without losing a single CV. You just have to do things right.

[pontiouspilot]

Good work EHansen! Especially if you did it with Buffaloes and Devasators!!

[spence]

Historically the first lopsided battle was the Battle of the Philippine Sea in 1944. Both sides got hurt in all of the 1942 battles.

Since the IJN torpedo bombers never fired a shot in anger prior to Pearl Harbor (with a torpedo) it is curious why they rate so highly and the RN torpedo bombers rate so poorly. Crumby airplanes aside they had managed to cripple the Bismarck, an Italian cruiser or two while those ships were underway at sea. Also notable is that they had sunk 3 Italian BBs at Taranto with half as many bombers as the IJN used at Pearl Harbor.

The CV battle that never happened in the IO isn't even a possibility since the doesn't allow the RN torpedo bombers to find anything at night even those at least some of them had a surface search radar. Is this because the IJN couldn't play CVs at night at all?

[cohimbra]

ORIGINAL: spence

Also notable is that they had sunk 3 Italian BBs at Taranto with half as many bombers as the IJN used at Pearl Harbor.

None of the 3 BBs was sunk, although one of them never came back into service:
- BB Conte di Cavour, 1 torpedo hit, never came back into service;
- BB Caio Duilio, 1 torpedo hit, came back into service;
- BB Littorio, 3 torpedo hits, came back into service.


La Notte di Taranto (The Night of Taranto), 11/12 november 1940

http://digilander.libero.it/planciacoma ... ranto1.htm (pag.1)
http://digilander.libero.it/planciacoma ... ranto2.htm (pag.2)
http://digilander.libero.it/planciacoma ... ranto3.htm (pag.3)
http://digilander.libero.it/planciacoma ... ranto4.htm (pag.4)

[Erkki]

They rate poorly because they were poor. Performance is performance, and they were rather awful and obsolescent.

If you meant the torpedoes, I think the in-game values are derived from real life torpedo range, running speed, possible reliability issues and warhead power.

You cant make generalizations out of just a couple of events. Taranto and Bismarck are hardly a huge sample size for measuring combat effectiveness of Swordfish' or British torpedoes. BB Marat and this certain pilot called Rudel don't make Ju 87 a great dive bomber either.

[gunny3013]

My PC will not allow access to any other program while the game is running and print screen simply doesn't give very much information. Outside of that I'm not skilled in the program enough to post any other information. Sorry

I can tell you that -weather- had no impact or effect and we both took a single swing at each other in both circumstances. The period was early and mid 42.

It's not that I lost my whole fleet that matters, it's that he walked away without a scratch both times. Oh, and the game is VS. a live opponent.

In about a half dozen other "live" games, both sides took hits although the USN took the brunt, in this one I have never stood a chance. Hate to ask this but... is there a way to minipulate the program?

[wdolson]

Most of the Japanese pilots at Pearl Harbor had combat experience in China. The IJN rotated all their carrier crews through China to get some real world experience. The IJN also drilled their pilots far more than Western navies did. The pre-war training regime for IJN pilots was brutal and long.

The Shokaku and Zuikaku pilots were significantly greener than the other 4 fleet carriers at the start of the war. Many had not been to China and in some cases their training had been cut short to build up the carrier air groups. The other 4 carriers had among the best naval aviators in the world in late 1941.

Except for Midway, the USN did not do very well in carrier battles in 1942. The USN only managed to sink two CVLs, damage the Shokaku twice, and damage a third CVL (Zuiho) in exchange for the Lexington and Hornet as well as severe damage to the Enterprise. In addition Japanese subs knocked out the Saratoga for much of 1942 and sank the Wasp, as well as issuing the coup de grace to the Yorktown.

The IJN sank as many US fleet carriers in 1942 as the USN did Japanese CVs. The Japanese had more decks with the CVLs, longer range aircraft, better pre-war pilot training, and two of their CVs were probably the best in the world until the Essexes came along.

The USN had one excellent day against the IJN in June 42, but the rest of 42 was not so good. If Midway hadn't gone the US's way, 1942 would be remembered as a year of dreadful carrier losses for the USN. Ultimately the US would have won the war, but Guadalcanal wouldn't have been possible if the US hadn't won at Midway and the US probably would have been slower to get on the offensive.

Bill

[Numdydar]

Well at least until August '45 [:D]