Weapon system efficiency and the battle duration

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Alex1812
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Weapon system efficiency and the battle duration

Post by Alex1812 »

Greetings friends! First of all I want to say that I am enjoying this game. However, for more fun from the gameplay I would like to discuss the effectiveness of weapons and the durations of battles.

In current game (2.03a) we may see that time of the battle is not so much and the losses is very hight. Yes, the modern weapon is more accurate than in WW2 period. But in the same case the range of the firing is increased and the tactical of the battles is changed. So if we look at real modern war (Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia and poor Ukraine) we can find that duration of modern battles is not so quick and the losses in modern war is also not so high for both side.

In my opinion the efficiency of weapon in the current game is more higher than it should be. It will be nice if efficiency of weapon will be greatly decreased or if we have some option to set it as player want like in Steel Panther game. We decreases of weapon efficiency make the battle more interesting. In this case you or AI have more ability for change the battle plan, for attacking, retreating and attacking in another place.
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WABAC
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RE: Weapon system efficiency and the battle duration

Post by WABAC »

You can edit the weapons and units. And then you can edit the scenarios to use your edited weapons and units.
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CapnDarwin
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RE: Weapon system efficiency and the battle duration

Post by CapnDarwin »

It's true that you can edit and do your own thing. I will say that the list of "modern" battles has two problems. First, all of the battles stated are asymmetrical. There is no modern force on force. The closest would be the first Gulf War and battles like 73 Easting. Even that was one sided with sub standard Iraqi hardware. Secondly, for those few force on force battles (not insurgents hitting convoys) they happened in relatively flat terrain with long sighting ranges. This again tipped the scale of the fight to the higher tech force. Once you are in central Europe with 2-3km visibility with forces on moderately equal footing, the battles do get fast and bloody.

Knowing the numbers from the game engine, most of the hit and kill chances are very low after getting knocked down for all of the variables on the battlefield. In a lot of cases down to single digit percentages.

It is of course, tough to really know how this would have played out since it thankfully never happened. We do believe we have a good model built around the data at hand. One of the beauties of the game is that you can make your own data, maps, and scenarios to do things your own way.

Thanks for the great question.[8D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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IronMikeGolf
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RE: Weapon system efficiency and the battle duration

Post by IronMikeGolf »

In my professional experience, the lethality of units looks about right. I do have minor quibbles over some specifics. For example: a .50 machinegun is nearly as lethal as a Stinger missile against aircraft (4 AD vs 5 AD). Can a defending tank platoon kill an attacking tank company within a minute. You bet! At what range? Depends on the particular tanks, the crew training level, etc.

Look at the Iran-Iraq war. Lots of tank engagements, but both sides generally needed to close to within 1500 meters of their targets to be effective (>50% Probability of Hit). That's a result of crew proficiency. The gunners needed to be within ballistic battlesight range to be effective. That range is a "gimme" to US crews.

In this game, as in real life, you have to do everything right to minimize your casualties - synchronize your maneuver forces with each other and with fire support (including aviation), properly utilize terrain, maintain command and control, and get inside and exploit your enemy's decision cycle.

I've had engagements where there was a high defender casualty rate, a high attacker casualty rate, and both attacker and defend had high casualty rates.
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RE: Weapon system efficiency and the battle duration

Post by CapnDarwin »

To put Iron Mike's min at ease on the AD values and lethality, the damage value is only part of the kill equation. For starters, we have to look at the accuracy values of both systems. I believe it is a 2 for the .50 cal and an 18 for the stinger. The gun is not usually on an AD platform so that is another hit against its accuracy. The stinger does have to deal with counter measures and trained pilots which take a bite out of its effectiveness too. So 4 versus 5 is not as close as it looks. [8D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
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