Quality control report 1

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WarHunter
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Quality control report 1

Post by WarHunter »

Quality control report on the state of the game regarding Vichy implementation.

-Edited this sentence out-

Attempted to send a German HQ into a Vichy administration group.
Only to be met with the message. "Neutral Country"
Tested this with 2 different Vichy administration groups.

Based on reading of the Vichy rules this should be possible.
Moving a unit to collapse Vichy works fine.

Already reported, working as intended or Bug found?

Relevant rules.
ACCESS TO VICHY TERRITORY No Axis units may enter Vichy controlled hexes while Vichy France is neutral (except to collapse her administration, see below). While Vichy France is active, only units belonging to the major power which installed Vichy France may enter Vichy controlled administration groups, and even then must satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2) to enter each administration group.
If Vichy France is active and hostile to any major power, units controlled by the major power that installed the Vichy government can enter any Vichy controlled hex without having to satisfy the foreign troop commitment limits.

FOREIGN TROOP COMMITMENTS A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
Ç It started the step there; or Ç It started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit. A minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of an aligned minor country on the same side is destroyed unless: Ç It started the step there; or Ç It started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit. Clarification: Axis units are also destroyed if they cannot satisfy Foreign Troop Commitment requirements in Vichy Administration groups.

Clarification: Home countries here may be new home countries. It does not refer to territory controlled by a conquering major power. You satisfy the foreign troop commitment limit if there is at least one HQ from the unit’s home country there (any Commonwealth HQ will do for Commonwealth units) and the total number of that country’s non-HQ units there is less than or equal to the total printed reorganization values of the HQs.



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WarHunter
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by WarHunter »

Relevant Savegame.
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michaelbaldur
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by michaelbaldur »

can´t see the bug here. if vichy is a neutral major power.

vichy can be neutral

or active

or active and hostile.

so to answer if it is a bug I really need a war status of vichy france.

also only the MP that installed Vichy can ever move into vichy controlled hexes. so are Germany the installing major power
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Viktor_Kormel_slith
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by Viktor_Kormel_slith »

War, what version are you running?In a pair of turns I try to replicate in our current game. By the moment in our game Vichy is working.
Sorry, for my bad english! "Wiffing" since 1990 to the tomb!
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michaelbaldur
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by michaelbaldur »

when vichy is installed it becomes a neutral major power ... so somebody have to DOW it to bring it back in the war..


not that it is relevant, but I using the latest beta test version.
the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

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if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com
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AxelNL
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by AxelNL »

worked fine at my place, railed in German HQ into lebanon and could move up to the reorg value others into it as well (was last month)

Will check the save when there is time, hopefully tomorrow evening.

Edit: Vichy was DoW'd by the allies in this instance.
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micheljq
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by micheljq »

Sorry plz delete.
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Centuur
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by Centuur »

I've investigated this. It isn't a bug. Since Vichy is neutral in this game, no Axis units may enter any Vichy hex on the map:

Here is RAW:

Access to Vichy territory
No Axis units may enter Vichy controlled hexes while Vichy France is
neutral (except to collapse her administration, see below).
Peter
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WarHunter
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by WarHunter »

If Vichy is Active and Hostile the Foreign Troop commitment limits become null and void.

What conditions make Vichy Active and invoke the Foreign Troop commitment rule?

When playing solo back in Dec of last year.
I was able to send a german HQ into Vichy North Africa.
There have been many patches since then.
This was an attempt to do the same thing with the current patch.

So having been able to do it and not do it.
It is now time for a discussion about what can be done, or not be done.

Enlighten me.


edit.
I went looking for more info.


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AxelNL
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by AxelNL »

When I DoW'd Vichy in my current game it became active, and I could move an HQ in. No allies went into mainland Vichy yet, so it has not become hostile yet. Therefore the Foreign Troop Commitment rule worked.

Summary:

Neutral: no entry other than for collapse
Active: after DoW but before hostilities on home territory: FTC applies
Hostile: actively fighting on home territory - free entry
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paulderynck
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by paulderynck »

Right.

Vichy will not be active until one of the Allies DoW it. Russia and the US must meet certain conditions before they can DOW.

Vichy will not be hostile until an Allied unit enters a hex in Metropolitan Vichy France or an Allied major power destroys every French controlled unit in its territory when Vichy is created. I have never seen the latter done in any game of WiF I've witnessed. If that were to happen, then Vichy could be Hostile to FREX the CW, without being Active.

Vichy can be hostile selectively towards the various Allies, but meets the "Hostile" condition as soon as it is hostile to any one of them.

The Vichy rules are the most complicated in the game IMO, and I've never seen a game where Vichy was created and those rules were not gone through - step by step.
Paul
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michaelbaldur
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by michaelbaldur »

or an Allied major power destroys every French controlled unit in its territory when Vichy is created. I have never seen the latter done in any game of WiF I've witnessed. If that were to happen, then Vichy could be Hostile to FREX the CW, without being Active.


never heard of this rule, is it a house rule ???
the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com
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Courtenay
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by Courtenay »

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

or an Allied major power destroys every French controlled unit in its territory when Vichy is created. I have never seen the latter done in any game of WiF I've witnessed. If that were to happen, then Vichy could be Hostile to FREX the CW, without being Active.


never heard of this rule, is it a house rule ???
17.3 FRENCH UNITS (DECISIONS BY MAJOR POWER INSTALLING VICHY)
The Axis major power installing the Vichy Government...
moves any French controlled units in hexes controlled by an Allied major power. French controlled naval units rebase at double their range, and French controlled land and air units are moved to the nearest Vichy France or Free-French hex. Alternatively, an Allied major power can destroy every French controlled unit in its territory. If it does so, Vichy France is hostile to that major power (see 17.5).

Assuming one has Adobe Reader installed, F3 brings up the RAC. Then one can use Adobe's search functions to find a rule. For example, searching for "hostile" rapidly found this rule.
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paulderynck
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by paulderynck »

It's been in RAW7 since at least 2003...
Paul
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WarHunter
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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by WarHunter »

Thanks for the mature and frank discussion to clear the air about the Vichy rules.

It made clear there are 3 different states of being for Vichy France. Steve has done a good job programing this.

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RE: Quality control report 1

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Thanks for the mature and frank discussion to clear the air about the Vichy rules.

It made clear there are 3 different states of being for Vichy France. Steve has done a good job programing this.

Thank you. Chris Marinacci did most of the work on coding Vichy becoming Hostile. I reviewed it a dozens of times and tweaked the code here and there so I could understand it better (e.g., adding a lot of embedded comments). But I don't think I made any substantive changes to what Chris coded.
Steve

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