combat results

[charlie0311]

Hi all,

.15 sov player (me). I had def cv 35 hex north of the Neva, fort level 3, city hex.

blown out with one attack, no air support, eng value 1, 6 inf div with nothing really extra.

X2 would need off cv of 70 and xcross major river, then 140.

Sov morale, leadership, air support, su about as good as can be for this stage of the game.

I would have thought this was impossible. Anybody wish to straighten me out!

[charlie0311]

what this means, of course, is that in .15, the capture of Leningrad (and N. Leningrad) is a cakewalk.

I suggest +5 morale (sov) for units within 5 of urban hexes. Eroding if they move away, morale gained or lost from combat unchanged.

[STEF78]

can you post the picture of the fight please?

[morvael]

6 divs with 7 CV (42 total) against defensive 35 CV is doable. He had element superiority.

[charlie0311]

would need "how to" help for pictures. I have been in touch with my opponent by email and can do some more written description. Attack force was mostly 90, or almost, morale, excellent ldrs, some pioneers and sturms. The attack was across the Neva, the city hex west of what's usually called the backdoor, the odds were 2.2 or 2.3 to one.

how is 42 double 35, especially with the river. what is element superiority.

Maybe should have added, not isolated and with plenty "in units"

[charlie0311]

pls ignore, fumble finger

[Oshawott]

In the first post you write engineering value of 1 and later you write there were some pioneers and sturm pioneers. Both can't be right. Only your opponent could tell us whether fortifications were reduced before combat. If fortifications were reduced the CV value used for deciding the winner is much lower.

[charlie0311]

eng 1 was from the battle report screen and fort level was reduced to 0.

pioneer and sturm (not pioneer,afv) remark was from the email from my opp, we have been discussing the result, and are both inexperienced,especially compared to you guys. pioneers and sturms didn't all participate, (from the battle report). I can ask if fort level were reduced before, during, or after combat. Maybe he can tell. May not really matter much as the results speak for themselves.

Still waiting to hear about xriver effect.

I can see how this attack succeeded, mostly the huge morale differential. My basic point still stands, that is, the attack on Leningrad is a cakewalk (read way too easy) in .15.

For some more background. A good part of NW front escaped the turn one onslaught. 16th army (entire) and one of the best inf corp from SW front were railed to Lgrad sector. Entrenchments were started with the highest construction value units available on turn one. the outer line was Novgorod then NW to the rough hex. I had 4 or 5 successful counterattacks but basically the whole thing was a straight walk over to the swamp "backdoor". The swamp backdoor (2 fort) was blown out by 5div pz attack, 5 or 6 to one. The attack corridor was the two hex path of light woods.

I fought almost an identical series of battles with my first opponent, v.11. Counterattacks in the assault corridor drove him back. Assault corridor is those light woods hexes.

[terje439]

Do you still have the turn? If so, you would get alot more accurate answers if you posted the battle results (the ones you get when you click on either the battle in the log, or on the battle icon on the map).


Terje

[charlie0311]

so ok, btw I said sturms when I meant stugs twice above.

don't know how to do screenshots so here's the longhand version

Axis Att Sov

II Corp / 16th army -10%
12 Inf Div (79) / 163 Rifle Div (96)/
32 Inf (62)/
121 Inf (39)/ 23rd army
1 Gun, 3 How Bns / 43 RD (176)/
2 Gds Len RD (90)/
I Corp -16% / 2 Corp Arty, 1 aa bn, /
1 Inf (69) / 1 sapper bn
21 Inf (71)/
1 Gun, 1 How, 2 Hvy How/
1 Stug, 1 pioneer/

XXVI Corp -16%/
217 Inf (63)/
1 Gun, 2 How, 1 Flk/

Hq II Corp, combat value 394, mcv 853 Hq 23 army, cv380,mcv385

Eng value 1 Fort 3 -> 0

Odds 2.2 to 1

well that's a mess, all the sov stuff on the right got jammed to the left against the axis stuff. I'll do it all again on request if necc.

[morvael]

Yeah, that's pretty unreadable. Just write one side first, then the other.

Also, include numbers of elements ready at start of combat (visible when you click "Show Details" on battle report). Also, include aircraft stats.

Best would be to make a screenshot though.

Anyway, those who read my explanations of the combat system would know not to take CVs at their face value, they can be misleading.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

don't know how to do screenshots so here's the longhand version

Press PrntScrn when you have the report open in the game, then exit to windows and open paint or somethng like it. Then chose paste, the image from the game will pop up in paint (or what you chose to use), chose "save as", give the picture a name you recall, and save it as a jpeg file.
Then attach it to your post here

[charlie0311]

ok will redo my longhand version with air and elements ready. Then move on to learning screenshots (it's about time).

Got lots of other stuff to do today. So longhand tonight and screenshot when I figure it out and I will but i'm a computer "moron" so it may take awhile.

[charlie0311]

takes to long to type out the whole combat screen, browser bails

could't find any PrntScrn, wiil start a tread in tech support, maybe get a walk through.

ready elements was way axis 800 to 200 approx. Air war was 47 axis cap, about 55 sov ftrs and bmrs mostly shot down.

know indicated cv is approximate

still wondering about the river

[charlie0311]

the axis artillery, about 14 bns, reduced the fort level such that the attack could succeed

end of thread

[morvael]

Combat advantage was closer to 4:1, as presented by ready elements ratio (I find this estimate more accurate than CV when a lot of CV comes from terrain or fort). Perhaps it was around 3:1, and the Axis won as they should.

[morvael]

Imagine 1 element with CV of 1 multiplied by 1000 (CV 1000), attacked by 100 elements with CV of 1 (CV 100). CV ratio 1:10, but element ratio 100:1, attacker will win 100% of the time as even 1 hit will cause the defender CV go to 0. That's what is happening in WitE engine. CV is only one component of the combat system, unlike in the boardgames where the number printed on counter is the sole representative of combat power.

[charlie0311]

can this ready elements ratio be determined before combat

[morvael]

Unfortunately no, unless you roughly know how many elements is in a German division or a Soviet division - then you know what to expect. If you want to defend some place at all costs, put as many elements into the hex as possible, provided they are not drastically worse in terms of morale and/or experience. This means bigger units, with the exception for dense terrain (put infantry there, not tanks).

[jwolf]

Would beaten up, worn down divisions have fewer ready elements? If so, then I suppose that to defend vital hexes you need fresh units, or at least not the crummy ones that have already been creamed by the other side. Correct?