Playability - and other questions

[JudgeDredd]

So I have some questions about this now it's been out rather a long time. I know there are threads explaining progress and patching - but I'm looking for impressions from people playing it please...

I've been looking at some videos on Youtube and one thing I've always liked about the game is the graphical appeal. But I do have concerns about it a "a game"...

1. Honest evaluation of playability please? I know netplay isn't working yet...but crucially, has anyone managed to complete either of the scenarios (Barbarossa or Guadalcanal)
2. Stability
3. As netplay isn't working and there's no AI - how does this play solitaire - bearing in mind you are playing all sides
4. Are there any gameplay bugs - ones that would stop one of the two scenarios available or a grand campaign?

Also - one important question about registration of the game and online gaming. I'm actually looking to purchase this from someone else who no longer wants it (or more specifically needs the money for something else). As the game is registered to this person in the members area, would it prevent me from gaming online when netplay is available and should I choose to do so?

Thanks for any replies.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

So I have some questions about this now it's been out rather a long time. I know there are threads explaining progress and patching - but I'm looking for impressions from people playing it please...

I've been looking at some videos on Youtube and one thing I've always liked about the game is the graphical appeal. But I do have concerns about it a "a game"...

1. Honest evaluation of playability please? I know netplay isn't working yet...but crucially, has anyone managed to complete either of the scenarios (Barbarossa or Guadalcanal)
2. Stability
3. As netplay isn't working and there's no AI - how does this play solitaire - bearing in mind you are playing all sides
4. Are there any gameplay bugs - ones that would stop one of the two scenarios available or a grand campaign?

Also - one important question about registration of the game and online gaming. I'm actually looking to purchase this from someone else who no longer wants it (or more specifically needs the money for something else). As the game is registered to this person in the members area, would it prevent me from gaming online when netplay is available and should I choose to do so?

Thanks for any replies.

warspite1

1. Playability. You can get a solitaire Global War game of sorts going (see below) but.... I really would not advise buying this game for Guadalcanal or Barbarossa - its like buying a Bugatti Veyron to go shopping at the Kwik-e-mart at the end of your road.

2. The game seems stable enough - I personally have had only a couple of game ending bugs.

3. Playing solitaire - when it works - is absolutely fine. The game is sooooo damn good, so rich, so much fun, so visually appealing, you will love it.

4. Yes there are plenty of bugs - some real killers too. Production / Convoys / Resource lending etc is just plain broken. Supply still has issues too. As you can see from my first two AAR, you can get a game going and simply ignore the convoy war and all that goes with it, if you are happy with that pending patches and fixes in due course.

In summary, I would always recommend this game to anyone - it is simply the best game ever. FACT. But to spend cash on MWIF you need to look at it as a long term project I think. If you are okay with the cash outlay given the above, then I would go for it and start learning the game ahead of it one day (hopefully) working.

[JudgeDredd]

Thank you for the prompt reply. That seems fair, though I know you were a beta tester, I don't think that necessarily affects your honest evaluation of it - especially so far along now.

I wasn't going to buy it just for Barbarossa and Guadalcanal. Not at all. But I gather they are the two scenarios (in that order) you are suggested to dive into in order to "break you in". I was just wondering if anyone had finished either of them.

The parts that are broken (production, convoys, resource lending) - do they not impact greatly then? You can ignore those and have a decent game?

Also - what about the question on registration affecting online play for someone buying a used copy. Given that this isn't working as it should, I just wouldn't pay what's being asked...especially for DD (I know that's been gone through many times though) - so this opportunity has only come about because someone is passing their copy on.

Thanks again.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Thank you for the prompt reply. That seems fair, though I know you were a beta tester, I don't think that necessarily affects your honest evaluation of it - especially so far along now.

I wasn't going to buy it just for Barbarossa and Guadalcanal. Not at all. But I gather they are the two scenarios (in that order) you are suggested to dive into in order to "break you in". I was just wondering if anyone had finished either of them.

The parts that are broken (production, convoys, resource lending) - do they not impact greatly then? You can ignore those and have a decent game?

Also - what about the question on registration affecting online play for someone buying a used copy. Given that this isn't working as it should, I just wouldn't pay what's being asked...especially for DD (I know that's been gone through many times though) - so this opportunity has only come about because someone is passing their copy on.

Thanks again.

warspite1

No, this is a totally 100% honest, personal evaluation. I no longer beta test.

Personally I have never suggested playing Guad or Barb - even to learn the game. I threw myself straight into Global War when playing the board game - and would do the same for the computer game. This is only my personal opinion and suspect I'm in a minority but that is the only answer I can give on that. Hopefully someone can confirm if they have finished either. But my point was - who cares, because even if they have then unless and until Global War is fixed, its not what you pay £100 or whatever for.

I have not managed to get to the end of Global War before problems intervened but I had great fun getting there!! Playing with those beautiful counters on that masterpiece of a map was really special.

The problem is that each time you get so far, you don't want to re-start until certain problems that have arisen are fixed. Currently with me its Production. Yes I could play the game okay - I placed convoy markers and then generally did not attack them. Whatever turned up for production is what turned up that worked okay. But I won't start another game now until production is looked into. But believe me - I really want to [:(]

Sorry no idea on registration - I can't even get into netplay let alone try and play it.... [8|]

[JudgeDredd]

Ok - thank you Warspite1.

The counters and maps are very appealing...I just have to decide if that's enough at the moment. The registration/playing online question is quite a big one. I don't really want part of the game to be non functioning for me (when it's working).

Thanks again

[WIF_Killzone]

Don't know what Warspite is crying about, awesome game, I haven't had any of those problems recently but he is an advanced user so he would give the game a good workout. The bugs wont really impact a new gamer IMO. Buy it and enjoy it, and play any scenario you want. You will love it guaranteed.

[paulderynck]

About NetPlay (once it becomes functional), you have to be registered on the server and you connect and play on the server, not peer-to-peer. I cannot see how you would be able to use the game bought from someone else for NetPlay if he already had registered it.

There are some threads here where people have reported success using screen sharing or even emailing a HotSeat game file back and forth, in lieu of using NetPlay.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd


Also - what about the question on registration affecting online play for someone buying a used copy. Given that this isn't working as it should, I just wouldn't pay what's being asked...especially for DD (I know that's been gone through many times though) - so this opportunity has only come about because someone is passing their copy on.

Thanks again.

JD,

For a reliable answer on registration issues you would do better asking Erik and/or the Help Desk before you spend money. We know from past threads Matrix cannot/will not
make changes once a product is registered.

[WarHunter]

1. Honest evaluation of playability please? I know netplay isn't working yet...but crucially, has anyone managed to complete either of the scenarios (Barbarossa or Guadalcanal)
2. Stability
3. As netplay isn't working and there's no AI - how does this play solitaire - bearing in mind you are playing all sides
4. Are there any gameplay bugs - ones that would stop one of the two scenarios available or a grand campaign?

1. I would not recommend this game to anyone at full price. I see you are helping a buddy out.
For that reason alone, I would say helping your friend is the noble thing and taking the lemon off his hands is good karma.
Maybe someday you get lemonade. Paying it forward is good. The 2 scenarios are nothing more than kindergarten school. The Victory conditions are just lame.
As a boardgame player, never really played the scenarios in mwif. Other than setting them up to see how they looked. Were good examples when I was modding the terrain.
Play them once each and move on. the situations faced in the scenarios are only good at teaching you to be wary of the RNG.
She will give you the ride of your gaming life.

2. Its about as stable as a ship in rough seas. The deck gets wet, you have some flooding.
No amount of mops and pumps are going to keep it dry. Get use to reloading save games.
Become familiar with the save game maze of 4 folders, where to find the correct file and the order of play to find the one you really want.
Sometimes you can't save a game.
Which means starting over at the beginning of the phase.

3. Playing solitaire is quite easy. Just setup the game for single player. You have control of everything.
Nothing is hidden all the forces are yours to move as you wish. Currently I'm playing with another player from Germany.
We use Team viewer and Ventrilo to play the game together. We are also using the single player setup as it is the most stable setting.
Never saw much written about hot seat, except that its a lot more button clicking. So we opted not to play the game that way.
Have stopped a game that we played into 1943 because of all the contrived situations we had to place with each other.
It got to the point we were no longer playing against each other. Just playing solitaire with 2 people. Up to about 1942 it was mostly ok.
Things went down hill from there as all the axis and allies became part of the mix.

Netplay is just a mirage on the horizon. A lot of words about it. Nothing to show for it. Have yet to read about any beta testing for it. Team Viewer works fine for us.

4. Yes, there are gameplay bugs that will force you to seriously stop playing or modify your plans to fit the bugs. As the patches and updates are released at such slow pace. Have regression bugs. And generally force contrived situations. Playing solitaire you will be able to continue. There is nothing to lose when playing yourself except time. Know that you will become a part of the unsung public beta testers. If you choose to post saves.

The worst game play bugs that I've seen, imho.

The one where you overrun naval units in port and force them into a sea area where another fleet is waiting to pick them off. the game will just bug.
It may not happen with the 1st ship or the 5th ship or the 11th but it might. When it does. It kills everything. Start over and hope it does not happen is all you can do. Or just not overrun ships in port. Easy to do as a solitaire game. Probably why its not a high priority to fix. Playing with someone else its a much higher issue.

Carrier planes that are not really assigned to a Carrier. But they look like they are. That will mess up a game.

Transports that suddenly disappear for no reason.

Phantom convoys that transport resources for you. Making submarines warfare not quite as bad as it could be.

Convoy resource/Build Point transfer. You are going to spend time working with this. Its not player friendly.
There is a public beta out that claims some elements are fixed/better. I have yet to see much written about that.
No news in this forum is not always good news. Just not reported news.
Some will say this is working as intended. If so, it blows.

Still some lingering supply issues. Most can be ignored playing both sides. But the supply issue of HQ's on the coast is a game breaker right now. Especially if trying to do a North African campaign or any real serious inland invasion without a port.

The 1min20sec wait per nation during Production final/Preliminary phases. That's 12mins to get through each phase. 24 mins total.
Does it happen in 1939? No Does it happen in 1941? Sometimes.
When it does bring a sack lunch and stay away from the sharp objects. This seems to be a part of the convoy issues.
Especially when the USA, CW and Free French start sending stuff everywhere.

These are my experiences. Shared by my opponent.

[Courtenay]

Others have completed both scenarios. The one time I started Barbarossa I stopped because I had created a rout.

The game is stable. There are updates to fix bugs, but these do not impact previous games. (OK, occasionally a new bug has been added, but this gets fixed fast.)

The game is very playable solitaire.

At present there is one intermittent production bug that is driving me crazy, the fact that saved build point can sometimes randomly disappear. I hope that it is to be fixed soon, as Steve is working on production. That is the only bug that seriously affects my play. There are undoubtedly other bugs, but either I know about them and don't find them serious, or they are so inconsequential that I don't even know about them. And if I absolutely had to play, I could just not use the save build point option!

[tom730_slith]

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm having a lot of fun with the game.
I played the boxed version years ago, always solo. So playing solo now is no different. It took a while to get up to speed with the rules again, as well as the interface, but the videos are a huge help - as are the rule books.
The more I play the more I learn, and for me it's really a lot of fun. The thing I always loved about WW2 strategy games was the chance to change history by altering decisions. I always thought WIF (the board game) did this better than any other game, because of the scale and the depth of the game, particularly the resource/production elements which were so critical in real life. The better I get at the game the more I am enjoying this aspect.
For example, currently I am running a game beginning with "Missed the Bus" which is now in the winter of 1943. I made some major changes, the Japanese focused big time on China with a long-term plan of taking part in Barbarossa in the far east. The Germans went through Gibraltar (with the help of Spain) and North Africa and on to the Middle East, so they could align Turkey early on in Barbarossa and attack from the south into the Caucasus as well as the usual routes - all starting in 1942.
Some lucky sub warfare (and Nav Air) rolls caused MAJOR dislocation in the CW war production effort, as did strategic bombing to a much lesser extent. So at this point the US is still not in the game, CW doesn't have a foothold anywhere (although Great Britain is secure) - China is out and the Russians are on the ropes. Plus, all the Axis powers have resources to burn!
An unlikely, but certainly possible, strategic situation.
Fun. Scary, but fun!
So I highly recommend it!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Don't know what Warspite is crying about, awesome game, I haven't had any of those problems recently but he is an advanced user so he would give the game a good workout. The bugs wont really impact a new gamer IMO. Buy it and enjoy it, and play any scenario you want. You will love it guaranteed.

warspite1

Well if you actually bothered to read my posts you will know I was not crying about anything [8|]

The OP asked some specific questions ahead of laying out cash, and I gave honest answers; answers that highlighted the game's great qualities and also its issues.

The bugs wont really impact a new gamer IMO.

That was unhelpful at best and just plain wrong at worst. Supply issues, production issues, Vichy, naval - do I go on? - I do not see how you can say they would not affect a gamer, whether new or old?? In fact, they affect a new gamer more because, when trying to learn a game as complex as MWIF, it is very disconcerting to not be sure what is causing a problem e.g. game bug or playing a rule wrong??

As I made clear, there are some work-arounds, and you can simply ignore some of the problems, and this will enable a reasonable game of sorts.

play any scenario you want

No, they have not all been coded yet....


As I summarised in my initial post:

I would always recommend this game to anyone - it is simply the best game ever. FACT. But to spend cash on MWIF you need to look at it as a long term project I think. If you are okay with the cash outlay given the above, then I would go for it and start learning the game ahead of it one day (hopefully) working.

There, as you can see, no crying - just trying to be helpful to a fellow wargamer who is potentially about to spend a lot of money.

[JudgeDredd]

You can call me Judge [:)]

Answered fine - thank you. Apart from the registration question - I've got what I need I think.

Oh - no - two more things.

1. When starting a new game, does the player have to setup ALL the units...as in place them on the map themselves?
2. Is it two month turns? One of the videos I watched should a ship taking 6 turns for the initial phase and 6 for the final phase - and the commentator said that was 24 months. That sounded like a long time to put a ship into the sea!

[Joseignacio]

1 You can use "fast start"s where the units are preset, if I recall well. The previous scrap I am sure you can select a preset one.

2 It's two months' turns. And it's emulating the truth. 2 years was a reasonable time for a battleship or carrier. Cruisers take 10 months each cycle, it means 20 months in all. But you need to count the two months (one turn) that you have the hull completed but and you cannot start the second cycle yet (because you set up next period production before you pick the produced units - in this case hulls).

[Extraneous]

Perhaps Joseignacio you could elaborate on just which scenarios (all, some, or which ones) and units (all, some, or which ones) are effected by the "fast start".

[Omnius]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
4. Yes there are plenty of bugs - some real killers too. Production / Convoys / Resource lending etc is just plain broken. Supply still has issues too. As you can see from my first two AAR, you can get a game going and simply ignore the convoy war and all that goes with it, if you are happy with that pending patches and fixes in due course.

warspite1,
I just came back to the game after a 5 month hiatus. I finally got both of my Macs upgraded to Mavericks and created a new bigger Windows 7 partition. My True Update, as well as the Windows official update, were broken and it took me a long time to bite the bullet and fix my computers.

I remember how much trouble I had with shipping and storing oil. I left off at version 1.07, though 1.10 was available at the time I left. I was hoping that after 5 months there would be more progress made improving the whole convoy shipping and lending function. I have my old saved game to finish up but am looking to try starting with the 1942 scenario start and pass up all of that preliminary stuff from 1939 onwards. I figure I'll try not using the oil rules for simplicity's sake, I remember how much trouble using the oil rules was, especially trying to save it properly. Do cities store the correct amount of oil now as per the rules?

I look forward to getting back to playing again with the newer version.

Thanks,

Omnius

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
But you need to count the two months (one turn) that you have the hull completed but and you cannot start the second cycle yet (because you set up next period production before you pick the produced units - in this case hulls).

Not sure what is meant by that? If it's a six turn ship starting its first cycle in JF41 then it goes into the construction pool in the reinforcement phase of JF42, and may be built to start its second cycle in the JF42 production phase and arrives ready for movement and combat in the reinforcement phase of JF43.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

ORIGINAL: warspite1
4. Yes there are plenty of bugs - some real killers too. Production / Convoys / Resource lending etc is just plain broken. Supply still has issues too. As you can see from my first two AAR, you can get a game going and simply ignore the convoy war and all that goes with it, if you are happy with that pending patches and fixes in due course.

warspite1,
I just came back to the game after a 5 month hiatus. I finally got both of my Macs upgraded to Mavericks and created a new bigger Windows 7 partition. My True Update, as well as the Windows official update, were broken and it took me a long time to bite the bullet and fix my computers.

I remember how much trouble I had with shipping and storing oil. I left off at version 1.07, though 1.10 was available at the time I left. I was hoping that after 5 months there would be more progress made improving the whole convoy shipping and lending function. I have my old saved game to finish up but am looking to try starting with the 1942 scenario start and pass up all of that preliminary stuff from 1939 onwards. I figure I'll try not using the oil rules for simplicity's sake, I remember how much trouble using the oil rules was, especially trying to save it properly. Do cities store the correct amount of oil now as per the rules?

I look forward to getting back to playing again with the newer version.

Thanks,

Omnius

warspite1

Production is next after supply. This is the patch I am eagerly awaiting [:)].

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

You can call me Judge [:)]

Answered fine - thank you. Apart from the registration question - I've got what I need I think.

Oh - no - two more things.

1. When starting a new game, does the player have to setup ALL the units...as in place them on the map themselves?
2. Is it two month turns? One of the videos I watched should a ship taking 6 turns for the initial phase and 6 for the final phase - and the commentator said that was 24 months. That sounded like a long time to put a ship into the sea!

warspite1

1. The only thing I would add to previous answers is that placing units at the start of a game is one of the (oh so many) engrossing things about this game. It is not a chore. ADG have ensured great replayability for WIF because there are so few "set" placements where opponents can work out "perfect moves" at the start of a game. Trying new set-ups is all part of the fun.

2. No, 2-years is not a long time in reality. The US were achieving something like this at the height of the war, but no one else really got close - and for some, even in peacetime, it took considerably longer. I think there is an optional rule that covers the US but others are standard build times. As an example I think French cruisers took about 4-years in the thirties, whereas RN cruisers were about a year less.

[Centuur]

Almost everything which is written here is written out of personal experiences. This makes it always so difficult to say "you are wrong" and "you are right". From the quite negative views of Warhunter to the very positive comment of Tom730 I agree with almost everything which is in here.

Now, if I look at how things are progressing since release, I think there is progress being made regarding the fixing of bugs. However it is slow, very slow going. We are now somewhere in between of supply bug fixing and production planning bug fixing. The first has some regression bugs still remaining and the latter has the first fixes made by Steve.

I've come to the conclusion that the code is so difficult and large, that bug fixing will continue to go slow, very slow.

Anyone who hasn't got any experience with the boardgame, will be pleasantly surprised by what MWIF has got in it (as long as they don't run in the real game stopping bugs, and there aren't a lot of them around) when playing solitair (forget about Netplay at the moment).
However, anyone who's played the boardgame will get disappointed because they see the things which aren't coded right, according to the rules of the boardgame.

So it appears to the first group that they don't see a lot of bugs and the last group sees quite a lot of them around...

It's my personal opinion that we might be looking at at least half a year (and perhaps even a year), before the two major bug area's of production and naval combat (including naval interception) will be fixed. After that comes Netplay.

Matrix probably won't agree by this opinion. So if anyone wants to buy the game now, I think they should take this into account.

I conclude: it is playable in solitair if you make a lot of saves and are prepared to start a phase over if things really go wrong. Also: it's better playable if you have a computer with a lot of calculation power in it (since MWIF takes time to recalculate especially supply and production planning). However: use the learning curve provided (especially the video on production planning is very valuable). World in Flames is a difficult game...

Those are my two cents in this discussion.