IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

SPWaW is a tactical squad-level World War II game on single platoon or up to an entire battalion through Europe and the Pacific (1939 to 1945).

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KG Erwin
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IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by KG Erwin »

...let me be a volunteer for the OOB team. I've acquired much info on the USMC in WWII, for the specific purpose of improving the old game. The Marines went through drastic reorganizations each year from 1942 to 1945. To me, the image of the USMC being a conservative establishment is far from true, as they constantly tweaked their unit structures and weapons distributions during the Pacific War, arguably far more than the US Army did. Their progressiveness in utilizing new combat techniques and incorporating new technology as it became available to them was truly impressive. The adoption of the 4-man fire teams, which still holds today, is just one of the tactical changes which increased combat efficiency and allowed better control in a fluid situation.

I do have some specific requests, such as increasing the number of weapons slots from 4 to 5 or 6. We have a great community of enthusiasts who I'm sure would would be happy to join in a new endeavor.

Glenn
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JEB Davis
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by JEB Davis »

Me too, me too!
I want to be involved with OOBs and everything else that would be needed.
Reduce SP:WaW slaughter, "Low Carnage":
Settings: 80Spot,80Hit,100R/R,XXXTQ,110TkT,150InfT,180AvSoft,130AvArm,150SOFire / Command & Ctrl ON / AutoRally OFF
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Rodwonder
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Rodwonder »

I'd put time in for playtesting and scenario design...
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Falcon1
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Falcon1 »

LOL, you guys crack me up. :)

Like kids with your noses against the candy store window... but there is no more candy.
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maitrebongo
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by maitrebongo »

ORIGINAL: Falcon1

but there is no more candy.

Why not ?
As Steel Panthers is designated by a great number of players as the best ever PC tactical wargame released, and as a wargamer is able to spend 100$ or more for a good game, it is possible to think that a company would like to re-develop a game like this. If there is a need (and here is clearly a need for this in our community), there could be a product.
Don't you think that at least 1000 people around the world will buy a "New Steel Panthers" ? Personnaly i know soon 3 or 4 friends who will buy this immediately. How many do you know yourself ? And how many people on this forum know ?
(100 000 $ will be a good budget for starting this kind of project)

It is only a matter of new graphics, and to adapt this game for new systems (windows 8, OS X, Tablets...).
No new concept to invent,
no combats, movements to re-invent,
no new order of battles to create,
no new vehicles caracteristics to calculate,
no new maps to create,
no new scenarios to write and to test ;
All is in the original game yet.

If i was a developer (but i'm not), i will try this adventure.
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mkr8683
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by mkr8683 »

Falcon has a tendency to piss on peoples' parades [:D]
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JEB Davis
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by JEB Davis »

Unfortunately, I believe that tendency was produced by Matrix's piss-poor behavior in their treatment of the fans of SP:WaW. Falcon is right, there is no more candy. Unless a near-miracle takes place, of course, and Matrix management wakes up.
Reduce SP:WaW slaughter, "Low Carnage":
Settings: 80Spot,80Hit,100R/R,XXXTQ,110TkT,150InfT,180AvSoft,130AvArm,150SOFire / Command & Ctrl ON / AutoRally OFF
Enhanced http://enhanced.freeforums.org
Depot https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/spwawdepot/
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BigDuke66
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by BigDuke66 »

I bet before Matrix makes a new version we see new SPs from Shrapnel Games.
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JEB Davis
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by JEB Davis »

Well if Shrapnel could do an exact remake of SP:WAW and duplicate the combat algorithms exactly for starters, then make the improvements needed by the fans... I would become a believer.
Reduce SP:WaW slaughter, "Low Carnage":
Settings: 80Spot,80Hit,100R/R,XXXTQ,110TkT,150InfT,180AvSoft,130AvArm,150SOFire / Command & Ctrl ON / AutoRally OFF
Enhanced http://enhanced.freeforums.org
Depot https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/spwawdepot/
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BigDuke66
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by BigDuke66 »

Well...
"exact remake of SP:WAW" why an exact remake?
"duplicate the combat algorithms exactly for starters" combat algorithms for starters???
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JEB Davis
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by JEB Davis »

No need to get into another of the many debates about which game is better,
we are all free to have our favorites.
Exact remake: because SP:WAW is good as-is except for the improvements/fixes needed.
Should have put a comma in there: ...combat algorithms, for starters.
Reduce SP:WaW slaughter, "Low Carnage":
Settings: 80Spot,80Hit,100R/R,XXXTQ,110TkT,150InfT,180AvSoft,130AvArm,150SOFire / Command & Ctrl ON / AutoRally OFF
Enhanced http://enhanced.freeforums.org
Depot https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/spwawdepot/
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BigDuke66
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by BigDuke66 »

Yep, seems that many players use both because both have certain aspects that make them favorable over the other, if only one could have all improvements in one game...

Matrix/Shrapnel Joint Venture?


Now does WaW cover modern combat? If not at least winSPMBT stands alone on that field.
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mkr8683
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by mkr8683 »

There would never be a joint venture, as Shrapnel doesn't really 'own' WinSPxxx, and neither does Camo Workshop, who actually produce the two games.

It's been said by both guys who make up SP Camo that it would never happen; indeed, they refer to the old girl as "that other game."

I just wanna know what happened to 'Steel Tigers.'
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Nikademus
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Nikademus »

you mean Matrix's next generation replacement for Steel Panthers. (wow....it has been a long time....the name escapes me now)

If so, I think what happened was that the developers got caught in a basic quandary. How do you improve on such a 'perfect' wargame "enough" so that people will invest money into it?

Sure SP has it's faults but the overall product is one thats hard to beat.....thats why its still popular nearly 20 full years later. I think they tried to focus on more flexible orders phases and even 3D models with an isometric view like Baldur's gate.

But it fizzled out. Perhaps it simply didn't stand out enough.

I'd just like to see WAW improved further at this point. I'd love to see an additional message delay added for AFV interactions with weapons. WAW has so much rich info but often you can't read it properly unless you really slow down the overall message delay, but in larger battles with lots of soft squads like INF units firing this can make a scenario/battle take forever.



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Alby
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Alby »

hmmm, I think something may be in the works, perhaps, maybe, ya never know...maybe I got the bug again, maybe not...lol

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Alby
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Alby »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

you mean Matrix's next generation replacement for Steel Panthers. (wow....it has been a long time....the name escapes me now)



It was Steel Tigers, we worked on it for awhile but then Matrix just abandoned it...

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KG Erwin
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by KG Erwin »

Well, I thought that SPWaW was fine as it was, but it needs to be reworked from the bottom up. It was written with old code, and it IS a notorious memory hog. I'm still partial to it as I helped work on it in the last decade.
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Nikademus
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Nikademus »

Oh overall it is. I agree. I love WAW, and i also love WW2 and more so, MBT since it shows the more modern side of armored combat. the issue of Soft target vulnerabilities can be somewhat addressed thx to the lovely Preferences menu, along with countering the late version effort to make everyone's exp values all be fairly the same due to vocal minority pressures.

I think WAW's popularity in general helped kill it's successor. Perhaps they were afraid WAW's popularity would hurt potential sales for NuGame (Steel Tigers??? i could have sworn it had a different name.....god its on the tip of my tongue) Anyway all conjecture. I was not on that team.....being busy with UV/WitP/AE

I'd just like to see some small improvements to make WAW even more enjoyable. Like i said, i'd love to be able to have AFV messages have a diff delay time so i can enjoy the info WAW brings to the table....where the AFV was hit, by what, on what facing and the weapon type and pen vs resistance based on slope and angle etc. Its smashing fun to see in action, but INF interactions don't need to be so slow......biggest thing for the eye to pick out is the unmodified hit chances.

Alas, may just have to accept really slow battles.....the better to savor em i guess. :)

As for a true successor.....its a daunting task today just as it was 15 years ago. The game is 'that' good. Makes it hard to come up with a heir to the Throne.

Never left my hard drives but due to life, didn't play for a long time till recently. Its been a wonderful reunion :-)
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KG Erwin
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by KG Erwin »

At present, all you have to do is combine the Enhanced version with JEB Davis' LC settings, and you've got the best SPWaW version that exists right now. It was the fans that created this, and there are still many of us who play the game.

I've noted for quite awhile that the AI is decent on setting artillery targets, so in using LC settings it is even more effective. Artillery was the no. 1 killer in WWII, and SPWaW now illustrates this.

I also have found that airpower is powerful when it can hit targets, so AA defense is also vital.

So, while it is a two-dimensional map, you've got to think of ground warfare in three dimensions.

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Zap
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RE: IF There's a New SpWaW on the Horizon...

Post by Zap »


[quote]ORIGINAL: Alby

hmmm, I think something may be in the works, perhaps, maybe, ya never know...maybe I got the bug again, maybe not...lol
[/quote

Okay, that kind of response could start all kinds of rumors[:D]
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