DaBabes Fodder

[Don Bowen]

Right now my entire library is packed up and in storage (due some work in the house). Feel kind of lost without those books so I’ve been scouring the internet, reading detailed histories online.

Found some very interesting stuff…

First, the three evacuation transports of the Tryon class were used as invasion transports before they evacuated casualties. See histories at http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/24/24idx.htm and the linked DANFS histories. I think this qualifies all three of the Tryon class for inclusion as transports. Basically they were modified C2 with much improved troop capacity and a significantly different silhouette.

Next is the Greek navy in the Indian Ocean. A few mods already have the old cruiser Georges Averoff (as a gunboat). She was in the Indian Ocean in December 1941 and did not leave until the first week of 1943. Even more interesting are the destroyers of three different classes. Two of these were permanently assigned to the Indian Ocean and several more spent a few months there following refits in India. I’ve found several references to these ships being used as escorts after refit and before returning to the Mediterranean. These ships are particularly valuable at this time as the allied navies in the Indian Ocean were very short of escorts at this time.

Vasilissa Olga under refit at Calcutta Dec 7, 1941. Mentioned as escort to Mount Vernon between Colombo and Bombay. Returned to med. Via Aden March 6, 1942.

Kountouriotis also under refit at Calcutta, listed “on strength” at various Indian Ocean commands before returning to the Mediterranean April 15, 1942.

Spetsai also under refit and “on strength” until returned April 6th, 1942

Aetos refit completed (at Calcutta I think) in February, 1942. [s]Served in West Indian, Red Sea or Persian Gulf Escort forces for entire war.[/s] Returned to Mediterranean Fleet sometime between mid-March and late April, 1942.

Panthir. At Calcutta with refit done or nearly done as of Dec 7th, 1941. [s]Similar service to sister ship Aetos. Both these ships appear now and again as escorts for convoys.[/s] Not able to track this ship using the source below. Other web sites of unknown reliability do place her in Indian Ocean.

Ierax. Also refitted in India, used locally until returning to Mediterranean May 7, 1942.


Vasilissa Olga was a modified British "G" class, Kountouriotis and Spetsai were Italian built in the ealry 1930s - modifications of the Dardo Class), and Aetos , Panthir and Ierax were British built prior to World War I.


Edited after additional research.

[btd64]

The more ships we have, the more toys we have. I have also been looking at some of the histories online. There is a great deal of material available online.....GP

[Don Bowen]

All of this came from the wonderful http://www.naval-history.net/index.htm site!
Unfortunately the spelling of some Greek ship names is inconsistent - most likely due to the original records.

Also note the Portuguese gunboat on the East Indies station



1941


Greek cruiser AVEROFF departed the Mediterranean for Bombay in mid December



Monday, 22 December

Convoy BM.9 B departed Bombay with steamers EL MADINA (3962grt), RISALDAR (5407grt), RAJPUT (5497grt), JALARAJAN (5102grt), and MADURA (9032grt), carrying motor transport and stores for troops carried in convoy BM.9 A, escorted by Greek light cruiser GEORGIOS AVEROFF until 27 December. The convoy was joined by light cruiser GLASGOW on the 27th and relieved by light cruiser DANAE on the 31st. The convoy was also joined by light cruiser HOBART, which departed Colombo on the 24th with convoy BM.9 A, destroyers ELECTRA and EXPRESS on 3 January, and STRONGHOLD on 4 January, which departed Singapore on the 31st, minesweepers GOULBURN and BURNIE on 5 January, and Dutch light cruiser JAVA from 31 December to 4 January, when she was detached with damage to a propeller. Dutch light cruisers TROMP and DE RUYTER and destroyers BANCKERT and PIET HEIN from 4 January.



Convoy BM.9 B arrived at Singapore on 6 January.


1942

January

Greek Navy – (1) depot and repair ship hiphaistos (greek crew) arr Port Sudan 25 Jul, (2) cruiser giorgios averoff arr Colombo 28 Oct, (3) destroyers aetos arr Calcutta 9 Dec, condouriotis arr Massawa 28 Dec, ierax dep Haifa 28 Dec, panther arr Port Said 25 Dec, queen olga at Calcutta, (refit and repairs), spetsaI at Calcutta refitting to complete late Jan, (4) submarines GLAVKOS arr Malta 19 Nov, katsonis at Alexandria, nereus arr Port Said 23 Dec, papanicolis at Alexandria, triton arr Port Said 5 Dec, (5) torpedo boat destroyers aspis at Alexandria, niki arr Alexandria 11 Dec, sphendoni at Aden, (6) minesweeping vessels aghios georgios, christos, sevasti, thalia, all at Alexandria, (all ships Greek crews)



Thursday, 1 January

Greek light cruiser GEORGIOS AVEROFF departed Colombo for Bombay after escort duty with convoy BM.9 B.



Saturday, 31 January


Japanese submarine I.62 damaged tanker LONGWOOD (9463grt) 20 miles west of Colombo. Greek destroyer QUEEN OLGA, British sloop FALMOUTH and auxiliary patrol boat OKAPI hunted the submarine without success. The tanker arrived at Colombo that day. She was temporarily repaired at Colombo and sent to Durban, arriving on 1 November, for further repairs


Sunday, 8 February

American troopships WEST POINT and WAKEFIELD departed Colombo for Bombay, escorted by Greek destroyer QUEEN OLGA


Saturday, 14 March

Greek destroyer AETOS, escorting an unnumbered convoy that departed Trincomalee for Colombo on the 11th, attacked a submarine contact in 6-52N, 78-57E. The convoy arrived at Colombo that morning.


Thursday, 26 March

Destroyer JAGUAR (Lt Cdr L R K Tyrwhitt DSC), escorting tanker SLAVOL with Greek destroyer QUEEN OLGA and anti-submarine whaler KLO, was sunk by U.652 in the Eastern Mediterranean in 31-53N, 26-18E. Cdr Tyrwhitt, S/Lt H J Ashby RNVR, Probationary Temporary Surgeon Lt A G Gregory RNVR and one hundred and ninety one ratings were missing, Lt P F Cole and Lt E G N Mansfield wounded, eight officers and 45 ratings picked up by KLO.


East Indies Fleet Diaries


APPENDIX I - DISPOSITION OF SHIPS IN EASTERN THEATRE 15.12.41


SPETSAI - Calcutta

QUEEN OLGA - Calcutta

AETOS - Calcutta

GIORGIOS AVEROFF - Bombay


Saturday 31st January 1942



Enemy Activities

Tanker LONGWOOD was torpedoed 20 miles west of Colombo at 0800F, but reached harbour. The submarine was vigorously hunted by Greek destroyer QUEEN OLGA, FALMOUTH, OKAPI, and aircraft, but with no observed results.


Saturday 14th March 1942

Operations and movements

Greek destroyer AETOS made an attack on enemy submarine at 0730Z/14 in 06-52N, 78-57E. Made A/S contact and three depth charge attacks. Results considered promising. She then rejoined convoy.

DISPOSITIONS OF NAVAL FORCES



11. On the 31st January 1942, the Naval Forces on the East Indies Station were disposed as follows:


...


INDIAN COAST AND PORTS WEST OF CEYLON
...
Greek GEORGIOS AVEROFF
Greek KONDOURIOTIS



INDIAN COAST AND PORTS EAST OF CEYLON

...
Greek SPETSAI

Greek AETOS



CEYLON AREA INCLUDING ADDU ATOLL

...
Greek QUEEN OLGA



On the 28th February 1942, the Naval Forces on the East Indies Station were disposed as follows:

ARABIAN SEA

Greek IERAX
...

INDIAN COAST AND PORTS WEST OF CEYLON
...
Greek GEORGIOS AVEROFF
Greek CONDOURIOTIS


INDIAN COAST AND PORTS EAST OF CEYLON
...
Greek SPETSAI
Greek AETOS


March 1942

Greek destroyers AETOS whilst on passage from Calcutta to rejoin the Mediterranean Fleet carried out an attack on an enemy submarine west of Colombo which from evidence received was considered successful.

In addition, HM Ships IERAX and SPETSAI have operated on this station, while the Greek cruiser GEORGIOS AVEROFF and destroyer PAUL CONDOURIOTAS have remained in Bombay.

25. On March 14th the Greek destroyer AETOS reported that she had carried out an apparently successful depth charge attack in position 6 degrees 52 minutes North, 78 degrees, 57 minutes east.



Eastern Fleet Diaries

April 25th
...
HHellMS IERAX, after refitting, left Calcutta for return passage to the Mediterranean Station

April 30th
...
HHellMS IERAX arrived at Colombo from Calcutta, having called at Vizagapatam, Madras, and Trincomalee



17. On the 30th April 1942 Naval forces on the East Indian Station were disposed as follows

West Coast of India
...
HHellMS GEORGIOS AVEROFF
...
Portuguese GONCALVES ZARCO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ceylon area
...
HHellMS IERAX


May 4th
...
HHellMS IERAX arrived at Bombay from Colombo.


May 7th
...
HHellMS IERAX left Bombay for Aden


Friday, 15th May 1942

Red Sea
...
6. The Greek Commander in Chief requested that the repair ship HIPHAISTOS should remain at Port Sudan for another month in order to assist with the mobilization of Army recruits. IERAX was diverted to Port Sudan to complete boiler cleaning, having returned from fitting asdics at Calcutta.


Tuesday, 16th June 1942
...

Red Sea

8. The Greek repair ship HIPHAISTOS and the destroyers IERAX and SPETSAI refitting from her were moved from Port Sudan to Suez.




MEDITERRANEAN WAR DIARY – May 1942

Friday, 1st May 1942
...
3. COVENTRY arrived at Alexandria escorted by SIKH and KIPLING. AIREDALE also arrived at Alexandria and joined the 5th Destroyer Flotilla. H.H.M.S. PAUL CONDOURIOTIS arrived on completion of her refit.

[oldman45]

Thanks for sharing this. I will be adding some greek DD's to the mix.

[btd64]

These ships would be nice in John3rd's mod..[:)] GP

[LargeSlowTarget]

Interesting. Already have recycled Averoff from CHS and added Aetos and Panthir in my mod. Did not know about the other Greek DDs. Since the RN is short on DDs early-on, I will surely add them as well. Thx for sharing!

[Don Bowen]

I've been doing a lot more study on the Greek DDs in the Indian Ocean. I even purchased a pdf from Naval-History.net for research purposes.

I'm not so sure the historical record justifies their inclusion.

There were refitted in Indian ports (Bombay or Calcutta) and then immediately returned to the Mediterranean Fleet. Their only actual use in the Indian Ocean was escorting convoys while enroute back to the Med.

There were other ships under refit in India that would have been very useful to the Eastern Fleet, but these also were returned to the Mediterranean. The AA Cruiser Coventry comes to mind.

For a scenario designer, this leaves four choices:
1. Follow history and allow the Greek DDs to be used for a few weeks in early 1942. A variation of this is to have them arrive at historical times with significant systems/engine damage (to simulate need of refit) and allow the player to prioritize their repair for slightly more operational time.
2. Take a less restrictive view and simply make them available for the entire period they were in the Indian Ocean (basically ignoring the refit).
3. Open up even more and allow them somewhat longer periods of service in the Indian Ocean. Probably until after the raid on Ceylon and the Eastern Fleet's retreat to East Africa.
4. Leave them out entirely.

The original scenario designers opted for number 4, and with good reason. Numbers 2 and 3 are options, but ignore the precarious situation in the Med. and the equally great need for destroyers in that theatre. I believe I'll select number 1 with the "damage" option. Also with arrivals at Aden (in the damaged state). For the player this is a lot of effort for little benefit, but it provides the level of detail that I love.

More research required on the arrival dates and appropriate levels of damage.

I believe the Tryon class should be included. Now all I need is an icon.