3rd Reich

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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wworld7
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by wworld7 »

If i have timeill teply when im home
On my.pc. my phone sucks.

1.38 wss the last version.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by wworld7 »

ORIGINAL: bo
ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

3R's major problem was the lack of resources to fix some really killer
Bugs. It was a good attempt. If AH had more desire/resorces
it would have been fantastic. But alas that wss not to be...

Hi Flip

Really killer bugs now I am really confused [:(] , easy to do of course. I played several games straight through these last few weeks, and have not seen one bug yet.

What are you referring to? The AI is very good when it is the Axis but not so good as the allies, very good in naval operations as the allies. There is a patch called 1.38, not sure whether I have it or not cant tell. I have read the patch really changed the game, not sure how.

I have not played it in years and I am still a little rusty, I usually play as the axis because it is the Germans who set the pace of the game. The Axis AI thrased me the other day. The only complaint I have is the speed of the AI and I do not know how to slow it down, it averages about 2 or three minutes to do all its moves, I know that sounds good but when you have to intercept naval or air it is hard to find where the interception should be directed.

Bo


Bo,

It's been many years since that project. A killer bug is an action that either FREEZES the game to eternity or that PREVENTs a legal move or action in a game.
A number of these were identified but the project was ended BEFORE they were corrected. AH didn't want to expend the resources to do it.
The AI is easily beatable by an experienced player on either side, but it plays better in the early years as the AXIS. It can absolutely be CRUSHED as the
ALLIES.

That wasn't the issue, the main one was when two players played head-2-head and ran into things that couldn't be fixed with the GOLD app.

I am glad you still get enjoyment out of 3R, as it was one of my favorite games.

Flipper
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Twisted1 »

/quote Hey Twisted is that a computer version or a board version?

Board version. I do not think they are making a computer version.
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: bo
ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

3R's major problem was the lack of resources to fix some really killer
Bugs. It was a good attempt. If AH had more desire/resorces
it would have been fantastic. But alas that wss not to be...

Hi Flip

Really killer bugs now I am really confused [:(] , easy to do of course. I played several games straight through these last few weeks, and have not seen one bug yet.

What are you referring to? The AI is very good when it is the Axis but not so good as the allies, very good in naval operations as the allies. There is a patch called 1.38, not sure whether I have it or not cant tell. I have read the patch really changed the game, not sure how.

I have not played it in years and I am still a little rusty, I usually play as the axis because it is the Germans who set the pace of the game. The Axis AI thrased me the other day. The only complaint I have is the speed of the AI and I do not know how to slow it down, it averages about 2 or three minutes to do all its moves, I know that sounds good but when you have to intercept naval or air it is hard to find where the interception should be directed.

Bo


Bo,

It's been many years since that project. A killer bug is an action that either FREEZES the game to eternity or that PREVENTs a legal move or action in a game.
A number of these were identified but the project was ended BEFORE they were corrected. AH didn't want to expend the resources to do it.
The AI is easily beatable by an experienced player on either side, but it plays better in the early years as the AXIS. It can absolutely be CRUSHED as the
ALLIES.

That wasn't the issue, the main one was when two players played head-2-head and ran into things that couldn't be fixed with the GOLD app.

I am glad you still get enjoyment out of 3R, as it was one of my favorite games.



Flipper I never had the pleasure of playing head to head, my boys, now men play combat mission, there not into anything with Nato counters. Maybe that is still a problem I do not know one way or the other.[head to head]

About the AI, I am conviced that no one anywheres can make an AI to stand up against experienced players. Most do a decent job but thats it, just decent. I used to enjoy SC but the AI was so inept I just gave up and put it on that non-used game shelf over my head with many other duds.

The 3rd Reich's AI, IMO is more than adequate against a newbie, but as that player keeps progressing in the game that will change to adequate. At least you can practice and try different ways of attacking and defending. I reread the column on the 1.38 patch and according to the writer it made a world of difference in the game.

I am in no way promoting 3rd Reich over MWIF, just as diversion that's all. And your right if Avalon hill had the means to work on the AI and implement the new rules the game would now be very enjoyable. To me the game is much like Fascist Tide without all the extras which is what seperates the two games, meaning Fascist tide is more realistic than 3rd Reich.

There is one major difference between the two and that is 3rd Reich's Panzer exploitation phase and the pincer movements of the Panzers that can trap whole Russian units and put them out of supply, and if in the next Russian move they cannot break the encirclement those Russian units are destroyed without any endangement to the German units. The AI does this very well and a newbie will feel like he has been kicked in the groin or thereabouts [:(]

Very good fast game that to me at least is the best around for me until MWIF is finished. This game was made in 1995, 19 years ago gentlemen, and you would think by now someone would have figured out how to do an AI that would stand up to even the best game players in all the new games.

Oh well!

Bo


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Twisted1
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Twisted1 »

AI is not good on this game. Both sides get crushed. Did some interesting things to really mess with the AI. I always invade Turkey with Russia on the second turn. Then head to either Greece or Bulgaria, then on to Yugo!

As the Axis, I always invade England on turn 1. Italy invades in the Middle East, east of the cannel. France falls on turn two. Poland I do nothing but attrition.

I still love the game. Wish it was internet or computer-to-computer capable. I think it would be easy for someone to come up with the ability to have two (or more) players play from different computers.
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died.
Adlai E. Stevenson
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Twisted1

AI is not good on this game. Both sides get crushed. Did some interesting things to really mess with the AI. I always invade Turkey with Russia on the second turn. Then head to either Greece or Bulgaria, then on to Yugo!

As the Axis, I always invade England on turn 1. Italy invades in the Middle East, east of the cannel. France falls on turn two. Poland I do nothing but attrition.

I still love the game. Wish it was internet or computer-to-computer capable. I think it would be easy for someone to come up with the ability to have two (or more) players play from different computers.

That would be great if someone could take this game over put in the new rules and make it available for net play, improve the AI and you would have one of the best computer war games ever made. MATRIX WHERE ARE YOU? [&:]

Bo
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by juntoalmar »

Well, you can play PBEM easily. Ctrl+W and Ctrl+Q enables/disables AI for Axis and Allies. Maybe just on the latest version, can't say.

You can just play your turn with the opponent AI on (for computer to do interceptions and so), and turn it off before saving the game and sending to the other player.

The AI is more than enough to learn the basics of the game and get confident before playing against other human. And for having a quick play solo too, even if it's not as good as another player.

I really love this game.
(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by Joseignacio »

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Which is the point. Simpler game - easier to get an AI. More complex game - it'll be a good long time.

Sorry Paul dont have a good long time as do a lot of players my age, even if it is a simpler game it is better than nothing, which at the moment is what we have. [nothing[:(] ]

Bo

See what I told you when you enroled as a play tester? I don't blame Steve of anything and am still grateful for this project, otherwise orphan, ...

... but I lost my faith that it would be ready anytime soon and it was very painful for me the first time it was supposed to be released. I told my wiffer friends and they didn't believe it was going to happen.

"It's not possible to make a computer wif", "after 13 years, I don't think the game is going to be ended ever" "they are always on the verge of ending it" were the answers I got. I shared all my conviction that the game would come out then (like 2 years ago) and they laughed at me. Some months later I knew they were right and they laughed even more. That's when I lost my faith and decided it will be ready when it's ready and I don't care a damm. :(
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Which is the point. Simpler game - easier to get an AI. More complex game - it'll be a good long time.

Sorry Paul dont have a good long time as do a lot of players my age, even if it is a simpler game it is better than nothing, which at the moment is what we have. [nothing[:(] ]

Bo

See what I told you when you enroled as a play tester? I don't blame Steve of anything and am still grateful for this project, otherwise orphan, ...

... but I lost my faith that it would be ready anytime soon and it was very painful for me the first time it was supposed to be released. I told my wiffer friends and they didn't believe it was going to happen.

"It's not possible to make a computer wif", "after 13 years, I don't think the game is going to be ended ever" "they are always on the verge of ending it" were the answers I got. I shared all my conviction that the game would come out then (like 2 years ago) and they laughed at me. Some months later I knew they were right and they laughed even more. That's when I lost my faith and decided it will be ready when it's ready and I don't care a damm. :(

Hi Jose

What did you tell me when I enrolled, at my age I am forgetfull [:(] Very good points Jose right on, also sent you a PM.

Bo
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by pzgndr »

ORIGINAL: bo

That would be great if someone could take this game over put in the new rules and make it available for net play, improve the AI and you would have one of the best computer war games ever made.

"If you build it, they will come." Sure they will. I did take this over in my own way, and made my A3R mod for SC2 with challenging AI for both sides, and mostly got a big Yawn. Oh well, I enjoy it and that's enough for me. I hope to eventually update my mod for SC3. Maybe with hexes, they will come. Or maybe not. Whatever. Sometimes methinks most folks just want to whine and complain for no good reason irregardless. If they want to be unhappy, nobody's gonna stop them. [;)]
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by keyser soze »

3rd Reich was/is the best grand strategy game I have ever played (board game or computer game). With GOLD addition computer game is more than playable in single player or PBEM mode. To my opinion 3rd Reich game has great balance between complexity and playability unlike WIF. It is really too bad that no one have desire to re-make computer version especially now when we have PBEM++ option available. Long ago I have made research about circumstances to do re-make but there was a problem with copyrights and entire project has been too expensive.

However, my opinion is still that new computer version of 3rd Recih will be more cost-effective then WiF.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by AxelNL »

My experience is that an advanced 3R player is too much busy calculating odds en BRP's. The AI is nothing against an advanced player, and I started to dislike the die roll on the 2:1 against Paris. In WiF there is so much variablity that long term plans cannot become an odds and BRP spreadsheet game. Reaction on unforseen circumstances within a grand strategy in WiF is much more important and gives 'body' to the experience.

I absolutely enjoyed my multiple 3R weekends - but when WiF came out it placed itself on a level above 3R imho (also regarding being able to be played in weekends). I used the PC version once for a hot-seat session, but during my turn as German my 2 friends could not study the board and started to be distracted in discussions. After the encircling and surrender of the Russian forces we never tried it again. I tried some sessions against the AI, but the game either ended in '43 or in a bug causing a non-responsive system.

Good to read it can still give a lot of satisfaction to others though. I do still remember it fondly - especially the CW 2-5 counters doing nifty things and the power of a stack of German 4-6's in a breakthrough hex.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by keyser soze »

AxelNL, I know that you are great fan of WiF so which game you prefer is no surprise.[;)] Actually, this what you mentioned above is main difference between WiF and 3rd Reich game and game fans, to my opinion. I like when luck factor has minimum possible effect on game and logic, short and long term planning and mathematics are much more important. In fact, what is the greatest strategy game in the world? Answer: chess. And in this game is all about logic, mathematics and long planning.

Furthermore, bad results of 1:1 or 2:1 odds against Paris are great example of unforeseen circumstances and very interesting moment to see how player will react. I agree that initial attack on USSR with breakthrough and supply rules in computer game is hard to survive for Allied player but if you have played Advanced 3rd Reich this is different story.

In short, all main characteristic for grand strategy game are much better used and balanced in 3rd Reich game unlike WiF game.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by AxelNL »

I think we are in full agreement with each other [;)] It is depending on your own preference and experience. I stopped liking chess when I discovered it was only a matter of brute computing power to win (starting with studying books with openings), and discovered Squad Leader about the same time. I did read most articles about 3R from the General, however[8D]. I think what I like most is discovering the game "engine" and what the winning strategies are to "play" that engine. WiF is for me the biggest challenge of all in that respect.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: keyser soze

3rd Reich was/is the best grand strategy game I have ever played (board game or computer game).
warspite1

I played 3rd Reich for a while - but really found it quite dull. Then I was introduced to WIF and.... suffice to say 3rd Reich never aw the light of day again and was soon sold. WIF beats 3rd Reich in every department hands down in my opinion.

EDIT: Besides, I thought you said Bruce Harper's board game, A World At War, was the best grand strategy game you ever played [;)]
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by keyser soze »

Warspite1 you are even greater fan of WiF (and they lawyer) so it is, also, no surprise which game you prefer. To my taste, WiF have too many details to manage for grand strategy game (which is dull to me). In 3rd Reich this is much more balanced.

I have played 3rd Reich (board and computer game) and Advanced 3rd Reich (board game). Heard about World at War but never played.
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by WarHunter »

For a computer game, Clash of Steel was head and shoulders above all the rest. Check it out if you like 3R.
http://www.gameswin.org/?busca=clash+of+steel

Clash of Steel: Future Edition fixed lots of bugs that were reported. Best turn based, Strategic WW2 game to hit the market in 1995. Still a good game today.

Below is a good review of the game.
http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=5384&tab=review
For those looking for an in-depth wargame that covers the entire spectrum of the European theater in World War II but don't want to invest months completing it, Clash of Steel was made for you. The entire war (on both European fronts) can be completed in less than ten hours assuming you're not a novice. The number of turns run from two to eleven with "phased" increments equaling two months of real time across a map that is displayed in hefty fifty mile hexes. Even though the interface accommodates both mouse and keyboard, there's no doubt that using the former is the way to go. Simply click on a unit followed by the desired destination and just that easily your movement is executed. It's even simpler on air strikes. Select the target, then the strike command, and the nearest available air unit will attempt to carry out your order. Of course, hex-by-hex movement is still an option if you like to ride with your troops across the multi-faceted, realistic terrain. The game fairly represents both sides of the conflict so if you're hankering to rewrite history with a German victory, go for it! The challenges offered by Clash of Steel are steeply ingrained with tons of accurate logistical information, equipment, forces, weather considerations, personnel and optional campaign lengths (six different start dates are supported).

Because of the large chunks of time eaten up by each turn, you'll have to be very careful in your forward planning and strategy. Approaching the war from a theater commander's perspective can be daunting, yet game play fully supports the idea. You'll need to think your offensive thrusts through in detail and pay very close attention to available forces and allow for seasonal vicissitudes. Clash of Steel focuses on the war in a semi-macro sense and you'll be busy coordinating the multi-national responses, usually at the corps or army level. Victory conditions are somewhat simplified and usually require a go-for-broke type of mentality. With so many optional approaches for playing out your strategic ideas, the game's quick pace and relatively short time investment pays big dividends for those interested in the game as a war gaming laboratory designed for experimentation. So often war games are rigidly restrictive by not allowing the user a chance to significantly change outcomes. Clash of Steel straddles the line wonderfully by providing a high degree of historical accuracy and at the same time offering the opportunity to try out different strategies. There is an errata card included with the game and one is advised to update the manual because a couple of the changes are very significant. Judging important aspects such as force capability, research contingencies based on budgetary restraints, and strategically plausible targets are just a small part of the mix that Clash of Steel brings to your on-screen alter ego. SSI, Inc. has even infused the bland terrain and boring icon-based unit look with sharp and clear VGA graphics. That, coupled with good sound and smooth game play, makes this one a winner.

Graphics graphics rating

Crisp, clean, sharp. Game map and unit icons are easy on the eye.

Sound sound rating

A cut above many war games that treat sound as an unwanted refugee. Warlike sound effects enhance the total package.

Enjoyment enjoyment rating

Fast-paced, full European war scenarios that can be played without an intimidating time investment. Game play is smooth, options plentiful and execution nearly flawless.

Replay Value replay rating

Provides excellent opportunities for new strategies as well as realistic historical simulations.

Documentation documentation rating

Concise; brimming with information on historical scenarios and game play objectives.
Review by Michael L. House
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by pzgndr »

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
For a computer game, Clash of Steel was head and shoulders above all the rest. Check it out if you like 3R.

Strategic Command was inspired by Clash of Steel; Hubert Cater had played COS but never played 3R. I had played 3R/A3R but had never played COS. And then SC came along, with its potential to become more. So when I said I made my A3R mod for SC2, there's a lot of the best of both worked into that adaptation. Some of the interesting features are FOW, diplomacy and research, features that WiF surprisingly does not have. Nor did 3R have FOW or research, so by using the SC2 game engine I was able to add some additional richness to the game without sacrificing its fundamentals (OOB force pools, BRP economics, more-or-less faithful map, etc.)

Based on Bo's OP, I reinstalled DosBox and 3R and fired up the old goat. Having played my mod (I'm kinda biased, I admit [;)]), against my own variable and challenging scripted AI (yes, you can do this yourself and make it as nefarious as you can and even get surprised by yourself), I have to admit that while there's a lot I miss about the old 3R game there is also a lot of the seasonal turn abstractions and other weaknesses that I do not miss. I'll also admit that 'my' mod is not perfect, but it plays well and I enjoy it when I can.

We are all looking forward to WiF being bug-free and complete, of course, but even then it will be what it is (like it or not) and not significantly moddable by the community to be much different than it is. Regarding 3R and COS possibilities, in lieu of any other project to update these old classics on the PC, I would suggest watching the Strategic Command 3 development here at Matrix. The default campaigns, like all those that before, should have fine WWII grand strategy scenarios for ETO, PTO and Global campaigns. But there are also the modding possibilities to allow players to create new or different games, including 3R and COS adaptations. Or, whatever you would like. [8D]
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: keyser soze

Warspite1 you are even greater fan of WiF (and they lawyer) so it is, also, no surprise which game you prefer. To my taste, WiF have too many details to manage for grand strategy game (which is dull to me). In 3rd Reich this is much more balanced.

I have played 3rd Reich (board and computer game) and Advanced 3rd Reich (board game). Heard about World at War but never played.
warspite1

[;)]
tm.asp?m=2146750&mpage=1&key=&#2146750
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RE: 3rd Reich

Post by keyser soze »

My mistake. Sorry. Judging by pictures I have thought that this would have been re-make of Third Reich with different name. It looks almost the same ([&:])
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