GD 1938 Random Scenario Generator

[Gregory Wilmoth]

Somewhere in one of the threads I recall reading that Bombur might be working on adapting the technology tree in GD1938 for use in generating random scenarios for the standard ATG game. Any info or update on this?

I play ATG regularly with several friends by E-mail. We use a randomly generated scenario and play as a team against two or three times as many AI powers. The technology tree in GD1938 is a marvelous artifact. It would be an interesting new twist to use it in a randomly generated game.

Would it be that difficult to create a random scenario generating package that uses the GD1938 technology tree and the eight major power ethic groups?

[danlongman]

I always play random with the resource mod so I would like that.

[Twotribes]

Bombur has a random generator mod with special ww2 units. Not the 1938 one but still if you can get it to work it is good.

[ironduke1955]

I always felt that this is a must. Take the air range 10 hexes for all units this makes air conflict dull. A large part of air technology was range speed firepower payloads maneuverability its a long list. So many Unit types are missed out Recon, Heavy Fighters, Fighter Bombers. I could add all aspects of the Vanilla OB that could do with major change.

The trouble is that the AI can barely manage the function of the simplified unit types provided in Random games how will it handle the complexity of Claus and Bomburs GD1938 OB.

Frankly I would not care if the AI made a mess choosing the correct mixes of models and types.
As long as I could play with 109's Spitfires Yak's P51's Tigers Panthers T34'S Sherman's Matilda's Lancaster's B17'S ME262 M26 Bismark Hood Scharnhorst Arc Royal Independence Frigate's and Destroyers
Jet Technology and all the rest. The generic models and limited types are one of the reasons I find the Random Maps so unplayable I am sorry to say boring.
What I will look for on sale in the Matrix shop, is Advanced Tactics Historic. If Bomber and Claus can do it for nothing all the better.

And of course historically upgrade the above models accurately with all there historical modification and why not some that were not used.

I might add don't miss anything out If the specialized tanks for the D-Day invasions are missed out I will know.

[ernieschwitz]

I actually had a conversation with Vic about the feasibility of a GD1938 kind of patch to ATG. What made me back off was that if it was going to cost the players anything it would have to have AI capability. Although I hate to admit it, that is probably correct. Look at a great system like WiF, that Matrix released recently: No AI, NO PBEM. For most players that means, no sales. (The asking price is what is keeping me from buying it too).

With that comment, about it needing an AI, the project died, a little at least. While it is possible to program an AI, for some things, the more complex a list of items and SFTs gets, the less likely it is that it will function well. I thought it over, and I am not going to do that programming, for an AI, that people most likely will not like anyway. Instead I decided to keep updating and upgrading GD1938, the best I could.

I am not sure what Bombur thinks, if he wants to make an expansion, for free, that has all the units that GD1938 has as well. But there is one thing to remember, GD1938 is an ever developing game. So new SFTs and Items will be added, as will new officers and such. But if it is ever developing, then a final version of the Items list and SFTs will never be available. I know Bombur is not completely finished finetuning, and that he also has his other projects, not to mention a real life job.... I am retired, so I don´t have that pulling me, but my time is also limited.

All I can do is ask the community to learn how to mod the game, and hope someone will be talented enough to make GD1938 into a playable Random game mod.

[ironduke1955]

I guess rather than a huge OB this may be possible.

Fighter 1 replaced with Spitfire I Range 4
Fighter 2 replaced with Spitfire II Range 6
Fighter 3 replaced with Spitfire III Range 8
Fighter 4 replaced with Spitfire IV Range 10

This could be done across all national OB's replacing the Generic models with well known models like T-34 Sherman's Crusader's etc

It is perhaps not the accurate OB provided in the excellent GD1938 but it would be a lot more interesting especially if the strength's of these historical models were added.

This could be a expansion or a mod I can't speak for anyone else, I would stump up $15/20 for a expansion if it came with a graphics upgrade and some extra features.

Also the full OB could be a option used for Random games with only Human players. The Simpler OB for games with the AI involved.

I did buy world in flames I did try and wrap my head around it but I found it very simplistic in combat terms whole army corps are permanently lost on the roll of the dice. And as was said no AI, Player versus Player only.

[Twotribes]

The 1930 mod has this stuff. It doesn't work for me but Bombur said it works so must just be on my end.

[Gregory Wilmoth]

Thanks for all the comments and information from everyone. I guess the task is harder than it looks at first glance. Ernieswchwitz, I understand how the AI, which is barely handling the technologies available now, would be overwhelmed by more. I also understand your situation and appreciate your decision to spend your limited time elsewhere. I, too, am retired, but have other demands on my time. I wish I could spend the time to master the scenario creator. But unless I was to become a "monogamer" for six month or a year, I don't think I would be able to do it. Hmmm. Perhaps ironduke1955's idea for a historical veneer to the existing game package would be more feasible. We shall see . . . .

However, just a few more questions. I downloaded Bombur's 1930 mod, but when I unzipped it and loaded the resulting scenario (Bomburmod1930v030.at2), I got a fairly small world with two powers that seemed incomplete. Did I do this right? More importantly, is the 1930 mod, in fact, a single scenario, or a random scenario generator? Perhaps I should first ask, has anyone created anything that is truly a new random game generator? Something that automatically sets up a random new game using anything other than the terrain, peoples, and SFTs that come with the basic ATG? Is that even possible?

[Twotribes]

It is for random games. It is not as complete as GD1938 but has a lot of flavor units.

[Gregory Wilmoth]

So what's the trick to use it?

[Twotribes]

When you look at the random generator to make games look at the bottom of the box towards the middle. It has a box for what master you use. Change the default to the Bombur 1930 one.

[Gregory Wilmoth]

OK, pressing the button on the main screen marked "New Random Game." Now on the page "Make Random Scenario Gold." Do you mean the button on the bottom row "generic.at2? Let's try that. Ah, the subfolder "altgoldscenarios" appears in a popup box. And scrolling down, there is "Bomburmod1930v030.at2." Hitting button marked "Open." Ahh! Now back on the screen "Make Random Scenario Gold," and the "generic.at2" button has been replaced by "\Bomburmod1930." Now pushing the "Make" button. Yes! Oh my!

Lord Carnarvon: "Can you see anything?" Howard Carter (peering into King Tut's tomb): "Yes, wonderful things."

Thanks much! I now need to explore this new "King Tut's tomb."

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955


Frankly I would not care if the AI made a mess choosing the correct mixes of models and types.
As long as I could play with 109's Spitfires Yak's P51's Tigers Panthers T34'S Sherman's Matilda's Lancaster's B17'S ME262 M26 Bismark Hood Scharnhorst Arc Royal Independence Frigate's and Destroyers
Jet Technology and all the rest. The generic models and limited types are one of the reasons I find the Random Maps so unplayable I am sorry to say boring.

Totally agree about the boring ness of random games. I don't even play them any longer because there isn't any suprise or interesting results any longer.

The AI is the weakest part of the game, it's good no doubt but it just feels like it could be so much better.

I've played several games of the Bombur mod for random games and the 'old' Global Domination mod where you could play any nearly any country in a GD 1938 world model and the AI does often delve into the unit database but it does so in bizarre and incoherent ways. Many of the units require some understanding of the historical and functional basis for the unit to use properly and the AI can't touch that.

I still think it's kind of fun to play it out as France for example and try to find out what is your best equipment for the job at hand.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: Gregory Wilmoth

OK, pressing the button on the main screen marked "New Random Game." Now on the page "Make Random Scenario Gold." Do you mean the button on the bottom row "generic.at2? Let's try that. Ah, the subfolder "altgoldscenarios" appears in a popup box. And scrolling down, there is "Bomburmod1930v030.at2." Hitting button marked "Open." Ahh! Now back on the screen "Make Random Scenario Gold," and the "generic.at2" button has been replaced by "\Bomburmod1930." Now pushing the "Make" button. Yes! Oh my!

Lord Carnarvon: "Can you see anything?" Howard Carter (peering into King Tut's tomb): "Yes, wonderful things."

Thanks much! I now need to explore this new "King Tut's tomb."

So Greg, if you find the random game fun, maybe we could play an h2h game ?

[Twotribes]

I would play head to head but unfortunately something is wrong on my end and the graphics don't work for the mod.

[Gregory Wilmoth]

To Jeffrey H.: Well, I'll see how it goes. I need to explore it and try it out first. Even if it's not fun for me, some of the others I play with might be up for it. (I have one in particular in mind. He plays a lot of several Matrix games online.) Of course, that assumes you and all of San Diego don't burn to the ground! It will take me some time. Across the desert here in the Phoenix area we have the Consimworld Expo starting in a week. Too many games, too little time!

To Twotribes: I'm sorry to hear the mods in the graphics don't work for you. I assume you mean don't work at all. On mine, the cityscape graphic for the Italian cities is Chinese, and the one for the American cities is Arab. But I don't think that's what you mean.

[Twotribes]

I get what looks like destroyed terrain all over the map.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: Gregory Wilmoth

To Jeffrey H.: Well, I'll see how it goes. I need to explore it and try it out first. Even if it's not fun for me, some of the others I play with might be up for it. (I have one in particular in mind. He plays a lot of several Matrix games online.) Of course, that assumes you and all of San Diego don't burn to the ground! It will take me some time. Across the desert here in the Phoenix area we have the Consimworld Expo starting in a week. Too many games, too little time!

To Twotribes: I'm sorry to hear the mods in the graphics don't work for you. I assume you mean don't work at all. On mine, the cityscape graphic for the Italian cities is Chinese, and the one for the American cities is Arab. But I don't think that's what you mean.

We're done with the wildfires for now. The bernardo fire got close but we didn't have an evac order.

Yeah, John Kranz has really done a fine job with Consimworld. He and I were friends back in the 70's and 80's. Good guy for sure.

[Bombur]

I have a Bombur 1930 mod that attempts to use units from 1930 to 1950. The development of this mod is crawling due to real world tasks. In the last upgrade I made automatic tech advances, so it will make things easier to the AI. The player still can research what is if techs. Two Tribes, however, has pointed to some issues with the scenario and I was unable to reproduce them. I can spare some time to restart the devlopment if enough members of the community thinks it´s worth the effort. The last version also allows you to start from 1930 to 1940 (usually about 1935), but you always can change the starting year in the scenario editor once you create the map. If anyone is willing to help this development (ernie????) he would be welcomed.

[Gregory Wilmoth]

I would be willing to work with you on your 1930 mod. I'm afraid I don't have any skill using the ATG scenario creator, but I would be willing to participate as a playtester. I can also do historical research and hunt for graphics. I too have other commitments, so working at a slow but steady pace is fine with me.