Production and the Production Multiple

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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Extraneous
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Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945

Sep/Oct 1939 the fist impulse (first Axis impulse)
Germany must declare war on Poland in the first impulse of any game that starts in Sep/Oct 1939. No major power may make any other declaration of war in that impulse. Germany cannot call out it's reserves because it has not yet gone to war with a major power.

The Germans first impulse against Poland is a surprise impulse. The Commonwealth should align Poland. To me the German objectives should be the cities of Lodz and Warsaw while defending the German Rhineland.
To conquer any other home country, you must control its capital plus every printed factory hex in that home country. You do not need to control a hex that only contains factories that were moved, or built, there.



Sep/Oct 1939 the second impulse (first Allied impulse)
France and the Commonwealth must declare war on Germany on their first impulse after Germany has declared war on Poland. No major power may make any other declarations of war in that impulse. The Commonwealth and France can call out their reserves because they have gone to war with Germany (a major power).

The second impulse (First Allied impulse) is a surprise impulse for the Commonwealth (and Poland) and France (Allies) against Germany. To me the Allies objectives should be to delay and hinder the Germans as much as possible.


13.6.3 Production multiples
{1} Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the major power's current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).

{2}Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if an enemy unit took part during the turn in a land attack (not overrun) against any friendly land unit (including partisans and notional units) in the major power's current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).
2.6 Fractions
Example: Germany has 21 production points. Her production multiple is 1.25, so she has 26.25 build points. This rounds to 26 points. Next year her production multiple increases to 1.5, so she has 31.5 build points. This rounds to 32.

Note:
None of these choices stop Japan from Strategic bombardment of Chinese factories. While this has no effect on the production multiple it can reduce the actual Chinese production of BP.


China
China starts with 8 factories, 7 other resources, 1 saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.25.

Trade agreements:
None.

China can put 7 factories into production.

If Nationalist China, Communist China, and Japan are at peace.
(7 factories x 0.25 production multiple) = 1.75 (rounded to 2) BP.

China and Japan start at war and Japan has units in China and in supply.
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).[/b]
So the Chinese production multiple is increased by 25% to 50%.
(7 factories x 0.50 production multiple) = 3.5 (rounded to 4) BP.

If Japan launched a land attack against a Chinese land unit in China during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

Chinas production multiple is increased by an additional 25% to 75%.
(7 factories x 0.75 production multiple) = 5.25 (rounded to 5) BP.



The Commonwealth (CW)
The CW starts with 22 factories. 1x factory in Australia, 2x factories in Canada, 2x factories in India, 17x factories in United Kingdom, 3x saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.50.

3x Oil Resources:
1x from Burma, 1x from Canada, and 1x from Trinidad.

21x Other Resources:
3x from Australia, 1x from British Guyana, 5x from Canada, 1x from Cyprus, 4x from India, 2x from Malaya, 1x from North Rhodesia, 2x from South Africa, and 2x from the United Kingdom.

Trade agreements (5x oil):
2x oil from the Netherlands East Indies (NEI).
1x oil from Persia.
3x oil from Venezuela.

The CW can put 21 factories into production.
This will leave the CW with one unused factory and four additional saved oil.

The CW declares war on Germany on the second impulse (first Allied impulse).

Normal CW production is:
(21 factories x 0.50 production multiple) = 10.5 (rounded to 11) BP.

If the Axis have a in supply unit in an unconquered United Kingdom during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).

Or the Axis launched a land attack against a CW land unit in an unconquered United Kingdom during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).[/b]
the CW production multiple is increased by 25% to 75%.
(21 factories x 0.75 production multiple) = 15.75 (rounded to 16) BP.

If the Axis have a in supply unit in an unconquered United Kingdom during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).

And the Axis launched a land attack against a CW land unit in an unconquered United Kingdom during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).[/b]
The CW production multiple is increased by 50% to 100%.
(21 factories x 1.00 production multiple) = 21 BP.



France
The France starts with 14 factories, 1x saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.50.

No Oil Resources.

10x Other Resources:
1x from Algeria, 6x from France, 1x from New Caledonia, 1x from French Indo-china, and 1x from Senegal.

Trade agreements (1x oil):
1x oil from Iraq.

France declares war on Germany on the second impulse (first Allied impulse).

1x CP to use the other resource in Algeria
Rail to minor port of Casablanca, French Morocco > 1x CP Cape St. Vincent > major port of Cadiz, Spain > rail to a factory in France

2x CP to use the other resource in Senegal
Rail to major port of Dakar, Senegal > 1x CP Cape Verde Basin > 1x CP Cape St. Vincent > major port of Cadiz, Spain > rail to France

6x CP to use the other resource in Hanoi, French Indo-china
From the minor port of Hanoi, French Indo-china > 1x CP South China Sea > 1x CP Bay of Bengal > 1x CP Arabian Sea > 1x CP Red Sea > 1x CP Eastern Mediterranean Sea > 1x CP Western Mediterranean Sea > the major port of Marseilles, France
This assumes four things:
The USSR will claim Bessarabia from Rumania and Germany then will align Rumania,
A neutral Italy will not allow France to transport resources through Italy to France,
Italy will not perform a successful Search and seizure, and
Italy will remain neutral.

This leaves France with a reserve of 1x CP.


France can put 9 factories into production.
(9 factories x 0.50 production multiple) = 4.5 (rounded to 5) BP.
This will leave France with five unused factories and one additional saved oil.

If the Axis have a in supply unit in an unconquered France during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).

Or the Axis launched a land attack against a French land unit in an unconquered France during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).[/b]
The French production multiple is increased by 25% to 75%.
(9 factories x 0.75 production multiple) = 7 BP.

If the Axis have a in supply unit in an unconquered France during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).

And the Axis launched a land attack against a French land unit in an unconquered France during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).[/b]
The French production multiple is increased by 25% to 75%.
(9 factories x 1.00 production multiple) = 9 BP.

Notes:
This doesn't take into consideration the France aligning Yugoslavia and its 2x factories and 2x other resources.


Germany
Germany starts with 23 factories. 1x factory in Austria, 3x factories in Czechoslovakia, 19x factories in Germany, 4 saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.75.

2x Oil Resources:
1x from Germany and 1x from Austria.

9x Other Resources:
1x from Czechoslovakia and 8x from Germany

Trade agreements (4x oil and 10x other resources):
2x oil from Rumania.
2x oil and 5x other resources from the USSR in exchange for 2x BP to the USSR.
1x other resource from Hungary.
1x other resource from Spain.
3x other resources from Sweden.


3x CP for the Sweden trade agreement convoy line
From the major port of Stockholm, Sweden > 3x CP Baltic Sea > the major port of Settin, Germany

This leaves Germany with a reserve of (WiF 7x CP) or (SiF CLiF & CoiF Naval 8x CP).


Germany can put all 23 factories into production.
(23 factories x 0.75 production multiple) - 2 BP for the USSR trade agreement = 14.5 (rounded to 15) BP.

This will leave Germany with no unused factories and three additional saved oil.

Germany will gain 3 more factories in Poland two of which can be put into production.
If the 2 Polish resources are also captured.
(25 factories x 0.75 production multiple) - 2 BP for the USSR trade agreement = 16 BP.

This will leave Germany with one unused factory and three additional saved oil.


If the Allies have a in supply unit in an unconquered Germany during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
Or the Allies launched a land attack against a German land unit in an unconquered Germany during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The German production multiple is increased by 25% to 100%.
(23 factories x 1 production multiple) - 2 BP for the USSR trade agreement = 20 BP (not counting Poland for production).

(25 factories x 1 production multiple) - 2 BP for the USSR trade agreement = 23 BP (counting Poland for production).


If the Allies have a in supply unit in an unconquered Germany during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
And the Allies launched a land attack against a German land unit in an unconquered Germany during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The German production multiple is increased by 50% to 125%.
(23 factories x 1.25 production multiple) - 2 BP for the USSR trade agreement = 26 BP (not counting Poland for production).

(25 factories x 1.25 production multiple = ) - 2 BP for the USSR trade agreement = 28 BP (counting Poland for production).


Notes:
This doesn't take into consideration Germany declaring war on Denmark to close the Baltic Sea to the Allies.

This doesn't take into consideration Germany declaring war on the Netherlands to and using the Netherlands one other resource for production.

This doesn't take into consideration the USSR claiming Bessarabia from Rumania. When this occurs it reduces the trade agreement resources (ordinary before oil) by 1 that the USSR is required to send to Germany.

Once Germany aligns Rumania: The Rumanian oil resource that had gone to Italy that will go to Germany instead. The Rumanian factory can now be used for production by Germany.

This doesn't take into consideration the USSR claiming the Finnish borderlands. When this occurs it reduces the trade agreement resources (ordinary before oil) by 1 that the USSR is required to send to Germany.



Italy
Italy starts with 11 factories in Italy, 1 saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.50.

0x Oil Resources:
None

4x Other Resources:
4x from Italy

Trade agreements (1x oil):
1x oil from Rumania.

1x CP to use the other resource in Sardinia
The minor port of Olbia > 1x CP Italian Coast > the major port of Naples

This leaves Italy with a reserve of 6x CP.


Italy can put 4 factories into production.
(4 factories x 0.50 production multiple) = 2 BP.

If Italy uses its saved oil or the oil from the Rumanian trade agreement.
Italy can put 5 factories into production
(5 factories x 0.50 production multiple) = 2.5 (rounded to 3) BP.


If the Allies have a in supply unit in an unconquered Italy during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
Or the Allies launched a land attack against a Italian land unit in an unconquered Italy during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The Italian production multiple is increased by 25% to 75%.
(4 factories x 0.75 production multiple) = 3 BP.


If the Allies have a in supply unit in an unconquered Italy during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
And the Allies launched a land attack against a Italian land unit in an unconquered Italy during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The Italian production multiple is increased by 50% to 100%.
(4 factories x 1.00 production multiple) = 4 BP.


Notes:
This doesn't take into consideration the USSR claiming Bessarabia from Rumania. When this occurs it reduces the trade agreement resources (ordinary before oil) by 1 that the USSR is required to send to Germany.

Once Germany aligns Rumania: The Rumanian oil resource that had gone to Italy that will go to Germany instead. The Rumanian factory can now be used for production by Germany.



Japan
Japan starts with 5x factories in China, 14x factories in Japan, 1x factory in Korea, 2x factories in Manchuria, 4 saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.75.

0x Oil Resources:
None

4x Other Resources:
3x from China, 1x from Formosa, 1x from Hainan, 1x from Korea, 3x from Manchuria

Trade agreements (4x oil and 2x other resources):
2x oil from the Netherlands East Indies,
2x oil from the USA, 2x other resources from the USA, and 1x BP to the USA.


2x CP to use the other resource in Hainan
From the other resource on Hainan > 1x CP South China Sea > 1x CP China Sea > the major port of Osaka

1x CP to use the other resource in Formosa
From the major port of Tokyo > 1x CP China Sea > the major port of Osaka

4x CP Japan/Netherlands East Indies trade agreement convoy line
From the Netherlands East Indies > 2x CP South China Sea > 2x CP Japanese Coast > the major port of Osaka

5x CP Japan/USA trade agreement convoy line
From the major port of Tokyo > 5x CP Japanese Coast

This leaves Japan with a reserve of 8x CP.


Japan can put 16 factories into production.
(16 factories x 0.75 production multiple) - 1 BP for the USA trade agreement = 11 BP.

If the Allies have a in supply unit in an unconquered Japan during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
Or the Allies launched a land attack against a Japanese land unit in an unconquered Japan during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The Japanese production multiple is increased by 25% to 100%.
(16 factories x 1.00 production multiple) - 1 BP for the USA trade agreement = 15 BP.

If the Allies have a in supply unit in an unconquered Japan during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
And the Allies launched a land attack against a Japanese land unit in an unconquered Japan during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The Japanese production multiple is increased by 50% to 125%.
(16 factories x 1.25 production multiple) - 1 BP for the USA trade agreement = 18 BP.



USA
The USA starts with 40x factories, 3 saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.25.

18x Oil Resources:
1x oil from Alaska and 17x oil from the USA.

25x Other Resources:
1x from the Philippines and 24x from the USA.

Trade agreements (3x oil and 1x BP to the USA. 2x oil and 2x other resources to Japan):
3x oil from Venezuela.
2x oil to Japan, 2x other resources to Japan, and 1x BP from Japan.


3x CP to use the other resource in the Venezuela
From the 3x oil in Venezuela > 1x CP Caribbean > the major port of Norfolk, USA

19x CP Japan/USA trade agreement convoy line
16x CP from the USA
From the major port of San Francisco, USA > 4x CP West Coast > 4x CP Mendocino > 4x CP Hawaiian Islands > 4x CP Central Pacific > Japanese Coast

3x CP to use the other resource in the Philippines
From the other resource in the Philippines > 1x CP Bisnarck Sea > 1x CP the Marianas > 1x CP Central Pacific > Japanese Coast

This leaves the USA with a reserve of 5x CP.


The USA can put 38 factories into production.
(38 factories x 0.25 production multiple) + 1 BP from the Japan/USA trade agreement = 10.5 (rounded to 11) BP.

Note: the USA can put all 40 factories into production but the result is the same.
(40 factories x 0.25 production multiple) + 1 BP from the Japan/USA trade agreement = 11 BP.

As a neutral major power the USA cam only save one additional oil per turn.

13.3.2 US entry options
When the US goes to war with a major power, you are treated as having chosen every unchosen entry option aimed at that major power. You still roll for each of these options but don’t have to move a marker to the tension pool when called for unless you so desire (except for your declaration of war ~ see 9.4 US entry). You do this on a case by case basis.

When the US is at war with every unconquered Axis major power, you are treated as having chosen every entry option (except US entry option 44 US may declare war on any minor country).

Note: If an Axis major power declares war on the USA, unless they are already chosen US entry options: 4. Intern French CV, 22. Gear up production, 25. Repair western Allies’ ships, 28. Start strategic bomber production, 32. US refutes Naval War zones, 33. Close Panama Canal, 34. Pass War Appropriations, 38. Arm merchantmen, 46. US may advance build units, 48. US may declare war on any minor country, and 50. Unrestricted naval warfare are not aimed at a particular major power and would not be in effect until the USA is at war with every unconquered Axis major power.

When Japan gos to war with the USA. If not already chosen the following US entry options go into effect:
1. Chinese build aircraft, 9. Resources to China, 13. Embargo on strategic materials, 17. Lend lease to China, 23. Freeze Japanese assets, 24. Re-open Burma Road, 26. Relocate fleet to Pearl Harbor, 31. Oil embargo, 36. CW reinforces Pacific, 40. US reinforces Guam, 41. US reinforces the Philippines, and 43. CW reinforces the Netherlands East Indies

When Germany/Italy gos to war with the USA. If not already chosen the following US entry options go into effect:
7. Occupy Greenland & Iceland, 11. US east coast escorts, 15. Resources to western Allies, 16. Gift of destroyers to CW, 19. Resources to USSR, 20. US land-based air escort, 27. Lend lease to western Allies, 29. North Atlantic escorts, 30. Lend lease to USSR, and 44. US occupies Northern Ireland


The USSR
The USSR starts with 29 factories, 3 saved oil, and a production multiple of 0.25.

10x Oil Resources:
1x oil the USSR.

20x Other Resources:
20x from the USSR.

The Nazi/Soviet trade agreement:
2x oil to Germany, 5x other resources to Germany, and 2x BP from Germany.

Note: This doesn't take into consideration the USSR claiming Bessarabia from Rumania. When this occurs it reduces the trade agreement resources (ordinary before oil) by 1 that the USSR is required to send to Germany.

Once Germany aligns Rumania: The Rumanian oil resource that had gone to Italy that will go to Germany instead. The Rumanian factory can now be used for production by Germany.

This doesn't take into consideration the USSR claiming the Finnish borderlands. When this occurs it reduces the trade agreement resources (ordinary before oil) by 1 that the USSR is required to send to Germany.


The USSR has a reserve of (WiF 5x CP) or (SiF CLiF & CoiF Naval 3x CP).

The USSR can put 22 factories into production.
(22 factories x 0.25 production multiple) + 2 BP from the Nazi/Soviet trade agreement = 7.5 (rounded to 8) BP.


Note:I choose to only show the following for 1939 the USSR production multiple increases to 50% in 1940. In order for the USSR to have Axis units in the USSR the Nazi/Soviet trade agreement will more than likely not be in effect.

If the Axis have a in supply unit in an unconquered USSR during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
Or the Axis launched a land attack against a USSR land unit in an unconquered USSR during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The USSR production multiple is increased by 25% to 50%.
(29 factories x 0.50 production multiple) = 14.75 (rounded to 15) BP.

If the Axis have a in supply unit in an unconquered USSR during the production step
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {1} above).
And the Axis launched a land attack against a USSR land unit in an unconquered USSR during the turn
(see 13.6.3 Production multiples {2} above).

The USSR production multiple is increased by 25% to 75%.
(29 factories x 0.75 production multiple) = 21.75 (rounded to 22) BP.

As a neutral major power the USSR can only save one additional oil per turn.

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)
Ur_Vile_WEdge
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

I'm not certain you need to use a convoy point to rail the resource from Algeria. You can rail across exactly one strait, and there are rails in both Gibraltar and Tangier. OTOH, the rail doesn't cross the strait itself, so I don't know what the proper mode is.


I'm far more certain that Germany has 10 convoys, so if they need 3 to ship the Swedish stuff, you'll have 7 in reserve. I'd only put 4 in the Baltic if I see the Soviets set up to try a first turn demand of the Finnish Borderlands. Also, you only reduce the amount of resources the Soviets have to give to the Germans for their border rectifications if the demands are acceded to or aligned. Especially in the case of Finland, ,it's easy to envision a war, Germany forcing a peace after 1 turn, followed by not aligning the country in question immediately. The Soviets would still be fully obligated to send their resources at that point.



Also, I assume you're not playing with oil for any of this?


Lastly, if we're going to go with likely first turn moves, you might want to list in the effects of the UK attacking Portugal and using their resource, which affects their convoy situation. Furthermore, while on the first turn, neither the French nor the CW can lend resources to each other, the second they're both active major powers, they an participate in the same convoy chain. At least for very early game calculations, it's almost more appropriate to say that CW+France combined have 91 convoys for the 2 of them.

"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
Extraneous
Posts: 1810
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:58 am

RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

Good points but I was trying to keep it as simple as possiable. You will notice I only included Poland (which has to be DoWed) that is why no other DoWs are included.

Changed Germanys CPs.

CW and France have (WiF 90x CP) or (SiF CLiF & CoiF Naval 91x CP).

I didn't list CW convoy lines because of all the variables such as...
Option 29: (Food in Flames) For each of Australia, Canada, India and South Africa where no resources are transported to a factory in Great Britain this turn, reduce the number of resources that did reach a useable factory in Great Britain this turn by two (minimum 0). The Commonwealth player chooses which resources are lost.
University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)
Extraneous
Posts: 1810
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:58 am

RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

Now that you have had a chance to look at the production & production multiple information. You should agree that the side that can produce the most (baring bad die rolls) should be able to win the game.


My views on overall strategy.


The 1939 Sep/Oct turn

China is in trouble without help.

The CW needs to build air and land units badly.

In time France can become dangerous if ignored.

Germany should crush Poland and Denmark as soon as possible followed by the Netherlands. At this point Germany needs to choose to either to continue eastward into the USSR or turn around and conquer France.

Italy may need to DoW France in order to get Germany to Lend lease Oil to Italy.

In 1939 Japan should not DoW the USSR it has better objectives in China.
Depending on Chinese set up Japan should focus on the Chinese factories and resources:
In the South near Kwei-Yang and Chang-Sha,
In the North near Sai-An.

The USA should still be a neutral major power and needs CP (Convoy Points) to ship BP (Build Points) to China.

The USSR should still be a neutral major power and still be able to claim Eastern Poland, claim Bessarabia, and conquer Persia. This means one resource that the USSR doesn't have to send to Germany and one oil resource from Persia.

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)
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Centuur
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Centuur »

The Netherlands? That means a gift to the CW of precious convoys, another TRS and perhaps even some SCS and a SUB too. I would rather have a CW without those 10 CP's. That makes live far more difficult for them.

Economically speaking, it's not good to attack the Netherlands in 1939. Now, Belgium (especially during a rain impulse) is a far better target.

The Netherlands needs to be taken on by the Japanese in 1941 (and Germany than takes care of things in Europe).
Peter
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

The thing is, unless you're playing with no ZoC on the suprise impulse (which, to my knowledge, is not a common option), if you don't attack the Dutch first, they set up the Cav in Liege, the inf towards the back, and block you off from the Dyle. Then, next impulse, the Allies rush up and make a real tough defense in Antwerp and Brussels and actually shorten the French line.


And Extraneous: Production isn't the whole game. I know it's tempting to count BP, and you can't ever completely dispense with costs, but viewing things totally as build points lost vs build points destroyed will yield sub-optimal strategy.

On the third turn, J/F 40, if we have "historical" advances, and not playing with Oil, the Axis will have

(5* 3/4)=4 BP for Italy

(17*1-1) 16 BP for Japan.

(24*3/4 -2)=16 BP for Germany, for a grand Axis total of 36.

Meanwhile, the U.S. will have 11, the Soviets will have 13, the Brits will have 17, and if we say the Chinese have 5 and the French have 7, (they're a lot more variable), that's 53 total, already a fairly healthy advantage over the Axis.


Allies outproducing the Axis is a fact of the game, and one you just have to suck up with the Axis.



As for the strategy:

Haven't played with the new map, so I'm not venturing an opinion on China.

The CW also needs a few more convoys, and naval escorts, especially if you're playing with the Coif units. So toss in naval units to that mix :P



Germany kind of has to attack Denmark on the first turn, if only to keep British and French raiders out of the Baltic. As for Poland? While it's the "default" strategy, sometimes a big push at France on the first turn can yield dividends. Poland really isn't going anywhere, and since only half of their units can leave the country, they can't really mount a realistic attack into Germany. France, on the other hand, can build up disturbingly rapidly, especially if the Brits start funneling BP to them.

But if you do go after Poland, it probably won't take all of your force, the Poles, again, just aren't that tough. If I go after Poland, I like to attack Yugoslavia on the first turn as well, they're pretty weak in 1939, and you can pre-empt a Bessarabia demand.

I'm not going to say it's something you should do every game, but IMO, the default is that Italy should attack France and the CW on the first turn. Firstly, it gets the Lend-lease going. Secondly, it lets you take real action types instead of those awful combines, and poerhaps most importantly, you can close the med. While your fleet might get beaten up if you sortie with it before you have a chance to build a zillion navs, the alternative is to let a bunch of convoys into the Med, which makes France build up real fast.

You don't attack the Soviets in 39 for those 4 resources near the border and/or Vladivostok. You attack in 1939 so you're in a position to support your German buddy in 41. If the mandatory peace happens then, you can take your time, secure in the knowledge the Soviets can't shut you down in a turn when you stab them in the back as they rush everything to try to stall the panzers.

Generally, if I even bother with resources to China, (I never do LL to them, but again, that might change with the new map), it's easier just to ship the British stuff in Malaya and India to them, as you're probably not using those resources anyway.

Claiming Eastern Poland and the Baltic states is a must. Bessarabia should be done if the Germans don't pre-empt it by aligning Rumania before you get a chance. Personally ,I like to go after the Finnish borderlands in the summer of 40 instead of Persia, but if you like Persia, go for it. And if the Germans are trying for a 42 Barb, you really need to clear out Persia.


I would add to this that the British, unless you have a really advanced Fall Gelb, should probably be attacking either Portugal or Iraq on the first turn.


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When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
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paulderynck
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by paulderynck »

The biggest problem with building for the CW is that every turn until perhaps the end of '42, you need more air units... and more land units... and more naval units.
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Centuur »

Yes. Boots on the ground and planes (especially FTR's) in the air are top priority with the CW, together with convoys to make sure the losses on those can be rebuild...
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Extraneous
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

1940 Production (assuming there is no Strategic bombing)

China
Production multiple 0.75
7 factories
5 other resources

(assuming Japan doesn't capture two resources)
7 * 0.75 = 5.25 (rounded to 5) BP.

(assuming the CW and France can each trade one resource to China)
9 * 0.75 = 6.75 (rounded to 7) BP.


CW
Production multiple 0.75
22 factories
3 oil
21 other resources

Trade agreements
6 oil

22 * 0.75 = 15.75 (rounded to 16) BP.


France
Production multiple 0.75
14 factories
8 other resources
(1 resource in Hanoi, French Indo-china and New Caledonia)

Trade agreement
1 oil

(if using Hanoi, French Indo-china or New Caledonia with CW assistance)
10 * 0.75 = 7.50 (rounded to 8) BP (using Iraq).

(if not using Hanoi, French Indo-china or New Caledonia with CW assistance)
9 * 0.75 = 6.75 (rounded to 7) BP (using Iraq).


Germany
Production multiple 0.75
23 factories
2 oil
9 other resources

Trade agreements
4 oil and 11 other resources (assuming the USSR doesn't claim Bessarabia)

Captured in Poland
2 factories and 2 other resources

25 * 0.75 = 16 BP (sending 2 BP to the USSR)(if the USSR doesn't claim Bessarabia).


Italy
Production multiple 0.75
11 factories
5 other resources

Trade agreements
1 oil from Rumania (assuming the USSR doesn't claim Bessarabia)

7 * 0.75 = 5.25 (rounded to 5) BP (assuming the USSR doesn't claim Bessarabia).
5 * 0.75 = 3 BP (the USSR claims Bessarabia).


Japan
Production multiple 1.00
22 factories
10 other resources

Trade agreements
4 oil and 2 other resources

(assuming Japan doesn't capture two resources)
16 * 1.00 = 15 BP (sending 1 BP to the USA).

(assuming Japan captures two resources)
18 * 1.00 = 17 BP (sending 1 BP to the USA).


USA
Production multiple 0.25
40 factories
18 oil
25 other resources

Trade agreements
2 oil and 2 other resources to Japan
3 oil from Venezuela
1 BP from Japan

(40 * 0.25) + 1 BP from Japan = 11 BP.


USSR
Production multiple 0.50
29 factories
10 oil
20 other resources

Trade agreements
2 oil and 5 other resources to Germany
2 BP from Germany

(assuming the USSR doesn't claim Bessarabia or conquer Persia)
(23 * 0.50) + 2 BP from Germany = 11.50 (rounded to 12) BP.


The Netherlands

First I did not say DoW the Netherlands and Belgium. Liege is in Belgium. So there is no ZoC from Liege.

Second there is one 4-3 INF in the Netherlands.

Third the Netherlands SUB units are better placed in the NEI.

Forth what ships that are over run may or may not go to the CW.

Fifth there is one factory and one resource in the Netherlands.


Yes, if you wait until 1940 Mar/Apr you get a German PARA unit. Remember should does not mean must.

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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by brian brian »

only Red factories are useable by a conquering Major Power
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

You are correct brian brian and Amsterdam, Netherlands is a Blue factory.
13.6.2 Factories
Each hex can contain up to 3 factories. Some of those factories will be red factories but most will be blue factories. The total red and blue factories in each country are recorded on the factory and resources table.
A red factory is usable if you control it in the production step.

A blue factory is usable if you control it in the production step and it is either in your (current and/or 1939) major power’s home country or in an aligned (not conquered) minor country.

Each resource you transport to a factory produces 1 production point. Only 1 resource may be sent to each factory.

Example: Dusseldorf has 2 factories (1 blue and 1 red). If 3 resources
were transported to Dusseldorf, it would produce 2 production points.

If Germany DoWs the Netherlands, which is the easy way into France.

I would still want the resource (especially if using the oil rules) and the factory to deny them to the Allies.


In my opinion

The Netherlands must set up its 4-3 INF in Amsterdam and 3-2 TERR in the NEI (Netherlands East Indies).

But it has a territory the NEI and 13 ships (2x CP or portion there of = 1 ship) to be placed in port{s).

Heavy Cruisers: De Ruyter, Java, and Sumatra.
Light Cruisers: Tromp and Heemskerck.
2x TRS
1x SUB
10x CP

Somce 6 ships can be set up in the NEI the SUB is best placed in the NEI to be used when the Netherlands is at war with Japan.

19.4 Minor country units
Setting up
When a minor country aligns with you, set up its initial units immediately. You must set up in hexes controlled by that minor. At least half a minor country’s initial units must set up in its home country.

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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Centuur »

I always set up the Dutch convoys and the TRS in the Carribean. The rest are in the Netherlands (except for the TERR). However, I still think that giving the Allies 15 build points worth of units for free (not counting any escaping ships from the Netherlands itself) in exchange for 1 resource point every turn is bad economics...

Also, the Dutch only have 1 TRS at start (and not two...).
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

While Dutch Guyana makes a great place to make the capitol after the Netherlands falls. You can still only start 6 ships (2x CP or portion there of = 1 ship) outside the Netherlands.

If you are advocating not to conquer the Netherlands I have to disagree with you. Because it also makes a great feint if you plan to wait for France and go against the USSR first.

As for only one resource. It reminds me of the old English proverb "If you take care of the pence and the pounds will take care of themselves". USA version "If you take care of the pennies the dollars take care of themselves".

If the USSR claims Bessarabia this takes care of the resource that the USSR will no longer be sending to Germany.
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

Just curious, how do you crack Belgium if you don't want to fight the Dutch? Do you usually play with no ZoC on the surprise impulse? Or do you wait and try to bludgeon your way in with the Paratrooper? It's still a little risky, I've found, to try to touch down on Brussels or Antwerp though.
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Just curious, how do you crack Belgium if you don't want to fight the Dutch? Do you usually play with no ZoC on the surprise impulse? Or do you wait and try to bludgeon your way in with the Paratrooper? It's still a little risky, I've found, to try to touch down on Brussels or Antwerp though.

The way to do this is published in the ADG annual (I think Bo put it in the forum here, somewhere). It's clean and simple (a little risk is involved, but most of the times it works). In my AAR there is the example on how to do it, using a somewhat similar German setup. And there is even a catch with it. Bad weather actually favours the conquest of Belgium in 1939. The Germans only need one hex to move, the French at least two to get in position (and doing so, they get disorganised and become "gefundenes fressen" for the Wehrmacht).

Now, this won't work if you do it later, since at that point there are more French units on the border and that makes this far more difficult.

It doesn't matter whether or not you play with the no ZoC on surprise rule if you do it the way described in the annual. If it rains (or there is a storm around), Belgium is toast.
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

I usually play with Railroad movement though, so you wouldn't get disorganized, even with 3 moving infantry, heading from Lille to Brussels. And the French can always station their Mot and their MTN in hex 1232, which could also then get into Brussels face up, no matter the wetaher. The British take a combined, move into Antwerp (especially if playing DSB), and whatever the French have in hexes 1231 and 1130 move a hex to the northwest.


You can certainly power your way through, and often have to if you're doing a France first strategy, but I've never really seen a way to prevent the Dyle defense on the first turn if you don't stop an impulse to take the Dutch out. And committing that kind of force usually means you have to give the Poles a pass until the spring.
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by michaelbaldur »

move into Antwerp (especially if playing DSB)

Dsb= danske statsbaner (danish state railroad company), so yes if you play with that you can move anywhere [:D]
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

The 98 annual advocates not bothering the Netherlands. Instead in 1939 you go for France through Belgium.

The Germans set up (this includes reserves):

11 corps on the Western front
(Germany takes advantage of the lack of French reinforcements and mobs the Belgium CAV in Liege, Belgium),

1 corps to take Copenhagen, Denmark
(Hoping for Allied intervention in Fredrikshavn, Denmark).

The rest of the corps on the Eastern front
(Germany spends 4 turns (yes 8 months) subduing Poland),



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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

The 98 annual advocates not bothering the Netherlands. Instead in 1939 you go for France through Belgium.

The Germans set up (this includes reserves):

11 corps on the Western front
(Germany takes advantage of the lack of French reinforcements and mobs the Belgium CAV in Liege, Belgium),

1 corps to take Copenhagen, Denmark
(Hoping for Allied intervention in Fredrikshavn, Denmark).

The rest of the corps on the Eastern front
(Germany spends 4 turns (yes 8 months) subduing Poland),




No, they don't spend that much time on Poland. I've killed the Poles in the first turn with the units I deployed there. I think it will take two turns maximum (of which you have to be prepared to accept that happening). If the Germans are lucky, they will still get Poland within the first turn (yes, I was lucky).
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RE: Production and the Production Multiple

Post by Extraneous »

ORIGINAL: 98annual1.pdf

The excellent Polish set-up was used by Rick Henderson at WiFCon ‘97 against the Official Australian Designer Team. 11 Corps/HQs in the East is the minimum required to overcome this set-up, and in our game, it took me 8 months to do it (I didn’t say this was going to be easy).

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