Serbian Campaign 1914

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HerrDak
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Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by HerrDak »

Greetings:

Im working in a scenario of the August 1914 Serbian Campaign at a 10km Hex Size, Brigade Sized Units with a time scale of Half Week Turns. This is my first time with scenario design, and if all goes well I will continue with other Austro-Hungarian Great War Campaigns.

1. I already have the most important Hex cities.
2. I already have the Austro-Hungarian and Serbian OOB.

Im having problems with the physical map, I dont have a clue about how accurately I put mountain, peak, forest, farms etc hexes... The maps I found for now are a litte confusing

Any help about the physical map will be appreciate.

Thanks. [:)]
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Oberst_Klink
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: HerrDak

Greetings:

Im working in a scenario of the August 1914 Serbian Campaign at a 10km Hex Size, Brigade Sized Units with a time scale of Half Week Turns. This is my first time with scenario design, and if all goes well I will continue with other Austro-Hungarian Great War Campaigns.

1. I already have the most important Hex cities.
2. I already have the Austro-Hungarian and Serbian OOB.

Im having problems with the physical map, I dont have a clue about how accurately I put mountain, peak, forest, farms etc hexes... The maps I found for now are a litte confusing

Any help about the physical map will be appreciate.

Thanks. [:)]
I'd suggest, because it is your 1st attempt to create a scenario, to contact some of the scenario developers who already got a map that scale from the area in question. I'd use them, if you get permission. That's what I did when I ask Joao to update and tweak his Kharkov 1943 scenario.

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Cfant
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by Cfant »

And as an Austrian I volunteer as a playtester, if it isn't too big and time consuming. :) Looking forward for Austrian World Conquest :D
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Lobster
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by Lobster »

To get a great map making utility go here: http://yves.lr.pagesperso-orange.fr/ODD/ODD.htm

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

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A: A stick.
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HerrDak
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by HerrDak »

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
I'd suggest, because it is your 1st attempt to create a scenario, to contact some of the scenario developers who already got a map that scale from the area in question. I'd use them, if you get permission. That's what I did when I ask Joao to update and tweak his Kharkov 1943 scenario.

Klink, Oberst

Nice tip, I contacted the designer of the 1914-1918 Great War scenario, We have the same Scale so it could be helpful.
ORIGINAL: Cfant2

And as an Austrian I volunteer as a playtester, if it isn't too big and time consuming. :) Looking forward for Austrian World Conquest :D

Sure, Im happy to read that. This scenario will be short (like 10 to 15 Turns). I really like the Austrian Empire History, so that is one of the main reasons why Im going to design this Campaign Scenarios :)
ORIGINAL: Lobster

To get a great map making utility go here: ...

Great Tool, Im going to experiment with it. Thanks.

Im thinking about making the Scenario to a 5KM per Hex. But Im not sure yet. ¿What do you think? When im allowed to upload pics to the forum I will show the scenario progress
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HerrDak
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by HerrDak »

Im searching for Physical maps, and it seems that all Montenegro, the vast majority of Serbia and Albania are covered with mountains ¿It fits right to fill the majority of the hexes in this regions with mountains? ¿Is this practical?
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Cfant
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by Cfant »

With this http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/ you can upload as much as you want ;)
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HerrDak
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by HerrDak »

ORIGINAL: Cfant2

With this ... you can upload as much as you want ;)

Thanks, but the problem is that the Forum dont allow me to put links.

"You are not allowed to post links for 7 days from the date of your tenth post." [:(]
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Oberst_Klink
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: HerrDak

ORIGINAL: Cfant2

With this ... you can upload as much as you want ;)

Thanks, but the problem is that the Forum dont allow me to put links.

"You are not allowed to post links for 7 days from the date of your tenth post." [:(]
Easy workaround, companiero!

PM your links to me or to Kamerad Cfant2. We can repost them here :)

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Lobster
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: HerrDak

Im searching for Physical maps, and it seems that all Montenegro, the vast majority of Serbia and Albania are covered with mountains ¿It fits right to fill the majority of the hexes in this regions with mountains? ¿Is this practical?

For topo maps you can go here http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/ but the info for them are from late 1930s to mid 1940s and compiled into maps. However, mountains don't change nor rivers. The topography should be fairly the same from forever for practical purposes. Cities should also be the same except for size. Villages and settlements not so much. Done by Army Map Service (AMS).

As for mountainous areas, depends on scale. At smaller scales some mountainous areas actually have flat or hilly places such as plateaus. Just because the altitude says 2500 meters doesn't mean the whole place is peaks or even rough.
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.
ogar
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by ogar »

I agree with Lobster that rails, cities, rivers, and mountains (peaks) in 1930 are likely the same as 1914 -- watch out for large "lakes", as 1920-onwards is when many hydro/reclamation projects happened.  I wonder if searching/requesting a railway map circa 1910 might help ?  Maybe on a WWI site ?

As for vegetation/terrain/environment, maybe some photographs from 1900+ -- possibly connected with tourist books of the time - might help.  It will not have the aerial Google Map view, but it will give an indication.  My two pfennigs/dinars (? are those correct) is that there is a lot more land under pasture or cultivation (no synthetic fertilizers); farmlands are very close to dense, small cities; forests are smaller than today (more people needed wood for heat/cooking and needed cleared land for crops/pasture). 

Remember, for defense/combat, the worst terrain applies; for movement, miseries accumulate (terrain effects add up to a maximum) -- so mountains might only be used for the 'backbone' of a high-altitude geologic formation, with forested or bare hills for the rest.  And of course, the visual aspect matters as well.

Have you read this thread - tm.asp?m=3508008 - about the pains of mapmaking ?  Telumar is an experienced designer, and he, too, has questions/concerns on how to do his map.  Some good pointers on map-making decisions in that thread, I think.

As for the 10km vs 5km..., remember that will effect combat density, supplies, artillery as well.  For 1914, in this region, my first thought is that 5km/half-week is a good fit for leg infantry/horse cavalry, but that's just my initial guess.

If your design is close to working, then it is worth while to take advantage of these offers to test it out.  Testing scenarios gives the designer great feedback into what works and what does not.  I have greatly benefited from insights and suggestions from folks testing my scenario.  That said, "honest" testing only means more re-working/re-designing the scenario.

Paraphrasing something Telumar wrote a while back,
"You may not have plans for much testing of your TOAW scenario, but TOAW has many plans for testing you."
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HerrDak
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RE: Serbian Campaign 1914

Post by HerrDak »

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Just because the altitude says 2500 meters doesn't mean the whole place is peaks or even rough.

¡This! Im really dont feel comfortable filling all the map with mountains and alpine terrain type... Altitude should not be the same as peaks and rough terrain.
ORIGINAL: ogar

I agree with Lobster that rails, cities, rivers, and mountains (peaks) in 1930 are likely the same as 1914 -- watch out for large "lakes", as 1920-onwards is when many hydro/reclamation projects happened.  I wonder if searching/requesting a railway map circa 1910 might help ?  Maybe on a WWI site ?

I have some information from maps and books, it seems that in the Serbian Campaign the abscense of proper railways in Bosnia Herzegovina and Serbia was a real pain for the K.u.K.
ORIGINAL: ogar

As for vegetation/terrain/environment, maybe some photographs from 1900+ -- possibly connected with tourist books of the time - might help.  It will not have the aerial Google Map view, but it will give an indication.  My two pfennigs/dinars (? are those correct) is that there is a lot more land under pasture or cultivation (no synthetic fertilizers); farmlands are very close to dense, small cities; forests are smaller than today (more people needed wood for heat/cooking and needed cleared land for crops/pasture). 

Nice tips, specially for Farms.
ORIGINAL: ogar

Remember, for defense/combat, the worst terrain applies; for movement, miseries accumulate (terrain effects add up to a maximum) -- so mountains might only be used for the 'backbone' of a high-altitude geologic formation, with forested or bare hills for the rest.  And of course, the visual aspect matters as well.

¡This! I think its valid to put only Mountain Terrain for really big geologic formations, it will be a great solution.
ORIGINAL: ogar

Have you read this thread ... about the pains of mapmaking ?  Telumar is an experienced designer, and he, too, has questions/concerns on how to do his map.  Some good pointers on map-making decisions in that thread, I think.

As for the 10km vs 5km..., remember that will effect combat density, supplies, artillery as well.  For 1914, in this region, my first thought is that 5km/half-week is a good fit for leg infantry/horse cavalry, but that's just my initial guess.

Yes, I read that thread, and as a matter of fact it inspires me to design my own scenarios, mapping that Italy was beatiful. [:)]

I like big maps with enough space to maneuver, I already send Oberst Klink a PM with some images (including a map at 10km per hex scale). Im really at the beginning of the scenario, so probably I will change it to a 5km per hex scale.

[/quote]
ORIGINAL: ogar

If your design is close to working, then it is worth while to take advantage of these offers to test it out.  Testing scenarios gives the designer great feedback into what works and what does not.  I have greatly benefited from insights and suggestions from folks testing my scenario.  That said, "honest" testing only means more re-working/re-designing the scenario.

Paraphrasing something Telumar wrote a while back,
"You may not have plans for much testing of your TOAW scenario, but TOAW has many plans for testing you."

Thats for sure, I have a lot of work ahead.

Thanks [:)]
"Solo es libre el hombre que no tiene miedo"
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