I see they're building a modding page ...

Distant Worlds is a vast, pausable real-time, 4X space strategy game which models a "living galaxy" with incredible options for replayability and customizability. Experience the full depth and detail of large turn-based strategy games, but with the simplicity and ease of real-time, and on the scale of a massively-multiplayer online game. Now greatly enhanced with the new Universe release, which includes all four previous releases as well as the new Universe expansion!

Moderators: elliotg, Icemania

User avatar
ASHBERY76
Posts: 2079
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:00 am
Location: England

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ASHBERY76 »

I am interested about the under-the-hood changes.
User avatar
CyclopsSlayer
Posts: 583
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:49 pm

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by CyclopsSlayer »

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I am interested about the under-the-hood changes.
While few details there yet, it lists a Table of Contents for the mod guide.

http://www.matrixgames.com/amazon/Guide ... gIntro.pdf

User avatar
ASHBERY76
Posts: 2079
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:00 am
Location: England

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ASHBERY76 »

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I am interested about the under-the-hood changes.
While few details there yet, it lists a Table of Contents for the mod guide.

http://www.matrixgames.com/amazon/Guide ... gIntro.pdf


I read it.The modding looks very good for star trek modders,ect but I see no modding added for game systems like diplomacy.I find it strange that other races give you territory map when at low relations.I would have liked to play with that sort of stuff.
User avatar
Loose Cannon
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:42 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Loose Cannon »

Other than the ability to create new galaxies and improve the Galactopedia I don't see anything that greatly improved over Shadows. Did I miss something?[&:]
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39324
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: Loose Cannon
Other than the ability to create new galaxies and improve the Galactopedia I don't see anything that greatly improved over Shadows. Did I miss something?[&:]


Er... yes. [;)]

Here's a list of what's new in Universe:

New to Universe!


- The entire Distant Worlds series in one package! Universe includes the Original Distant Worlds, Return of the Shakturi, Legends, Shadows and the new Universe expansion!

- Comprehensive Modding and Customization Support:
- Allows adding/removing/changing most items: resources (including new colony-manufactured resources), ship components, planetary facilities and wonders, fighter designs, alien races and race families, diplomatic dialog, empire policy, custom characters, ship and base design templates, governments, plagues, research tech trees and more
- Can customize most of the images used in the game: ships and bases, fighters, alien races, planetary facilities and wonders, characters, troops, components, resources, ancient ruins, planets, stars, asteroids, animated in-game effects and more
- Use a previously saved and editor-customized game as a map for a new game (instead of generating a new galaxy)
- Powerful new event system accessible from a considerably-upgraded Game Editor. Set up your own storyline in a custom map with triggered events and custom victory conditions
- Add story triggers on specific in-game objects or events, executing one or more actions on other in-game objects (either immediately or delayed)
- Can replace most of the user interface icons and sound effects
- Add your own custom help files to the in-game Galactopedia
- Switch between different customization sets with a couple of mouse clicks from the main game menu
- Comprehensive 100-page Modding Guide that outlines how to make Mods and explains all of the settings in detail

- Can now build your own planet destroyer projects in isolated star systems (once required technology researched)
- Allies will make cooperative fleet attacks against common enemies
- A multitude of AI improvements across many areas: resource transport, research pathing, fleets, etc
- Significant performance improvements, especially in mid-late game

- A new official storyline built using the new modding capabilities, covering the first war between the Freedom Alliance and the Shaktur Axis, in which you have access to the tech required to build your own planet destroyers, establish the Ancient Guardians and research and deploy the Xaraktor virus.
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39324
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I am interested about the under-the-hood changes.

Those are largely in these areas:

- Allies will make cooperative fleet attacks against common enemies
- A multitude of AI improvements across many areas: resource transport, research pathing, fleets, etc
- Significant performance improvements, especially in mid-late game
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
ASHBERY76
Posts: 2079
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:00 am
Location: England

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ASHBERY76 »

Allies need to actually stay in the war for more than 5 minutes for that to be useful.
User avatar
Tampa_Gamer
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Tampa_Gamer »

"- Switch between different customization sets with a couple of mouse clicks from the main game menu"

Does this mean that all of the files that can be modded have now been moved over to the theme subfolders?

I do hope that this is the case, because the way it is now requires some mods to modify files outside of the theme folder as well as inside the theme folder creating a real problem with respect to (1) maintaining a clean set of original files to revert back to or patch, and (2) patching the mod itself with further updates.
For those interested, forum thread link to post with a master list of all my DW mods: Link

User avatar
tjhkkr
Posts: 2430
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:15 pm
Contact:

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by tjhkkr »

Woe... there is a lot of neat stuff to play with...

Add story triggers on specific in-game objects or events, executing one or more actions on other in-game objects (either immediately or delayed)
Erik, by this, do you mean like ruins triggering pirates?

:) :) :)
Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.
TrooperCooper
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:39 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by TrooperCooper »

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Allies need to actually stay in the war for more than 5 minutes for that to be useful.

QFT! [;)]
feygan
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:41 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by feygan »

From what I can see this is all just cosmetic stuff again, sure lots more stuff but still cosmetic. Seems I can decide to have a death ray that has uber range and damage and make new icons/graphics/sounds but no real change to how the weapon mechanics function for example. AI changes are good and fine but where is the option for a modder to say "actually I want an AI to behave in this way".

I see about the custom game setup and saving maps with events etc. But can a modder make changes to the mechanics of how a galaxy is generated? could a modder have the game create a protogalaxy full of young stars in dense clusters etc or the other end of vast gaps with rogue planets loose in space? To say yes by setting how many planets at the game start is not the answer, does modding allow for a modder to change the laws governing said setups?

I also see nothing of stuff such as allowing changes to things such as planet orbits, or ship movement mechanics. This is leaving me more and more disenchanted with DW:U from a modding standpoint.
ReadeB
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ReadeB »

You have to be very careful about modding things and completely breaking the AI's ability to function.

This has happened with mods in other games (Civ IV) where the AI doesn't understand how to use or even that a new system exists.

It turns a fun single player game into an easy steamroller unless you ignore the AI's blindspots.

feygan
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:41 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by feygan »

ORIGINAL: ReadeB

You have to be very careful about modding things and completely breaking the AI's ability to function.

This has happened with mods in other games (Civ IV) where the AI doesn't understand how to use or even that a new system exists.

It turns a fun single player game into an easy steamroller unless you ignore the AI's blindspots.


Breaking the original intended function is pretty much all of what modding is about though. To say a product has opened up lots of new modding when in reality it has just allowed some small cosmetic changes is quite different. Not to mention some of the best mods around have come from issues of breaking the AI and then discovering new ways to use it.
User avatar
ASHBERY76
Posts: 2079
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:00 am
Location: England

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ASHBERY76 »

You can influence the A.I a fair bit with policies so I wonder if that has been expanded too.
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39324
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: feygan
Breaking the original intended function is pretty much all of what modding is about though. To say a product has opened up lots of new modding when in reality it has just allowed some small cosmetic changes is quite different. Not to mention some of the best mods around have come from issues of breaking the AI and then discovering new ways to use it.

I'm not following you here. Allowing players to for the first time create a custom galaxy, create their own resources, components and tech trees is "cosmetic"?

We're basically opening up the game in Universe, but we don't allow you to change the basic game design. It's a much, much more moddable Distant Worlds, but if you want to make your own game that works very differently, you still need to make your own game.

Improving the AI to handle these new mods is something we did and the AI's play can be influenced in many ways already. The conditional events also allow the modder to shape how gameplay unfolds. Completely rewriting the AI in all parts of the game was not feasible.

Universe basically hits all the top modding requests from previous DW releases. The areas that modders most wanted access to and which could be done, we opened up in Universe. I think you will be surprised, given your comments here, how much more can be done than what could reasonably be called "cosmetic".

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
Osito
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 8:55 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Osito »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: feygan
Breaking the original intended function is pretty much all of what modding is about though. To say a product has opened up lots of new modding when in reality it has just allowed some small cosmetic changes is quite different. Not to mention some of the best mods around have come from issues of breaking the AI and then discovering new ways to use it.

I'm not following you here. Allowing players to for the first time create a custom galaxy, create their own resources, components and tech trees is "cosmetic"?

We're basically opening up the game in Universe, but we don't allow you to change the basic game design. It's a much, much more moddable Distant Worlds, but if you want to make your own game that works very differently, you still need to make your own game.

Improving the AI to handle these new mods is something we did and the AI's play can be influenced in many ways already. The conditional events also allow the modder to shape how gameplay unfolds. Completely rewriting the AI in all parts of the game was not feasible.

Universe basically hits all the top modding requests from previous DW releases. The areas that modders most wanted access to and which could be done, we opened up in Universe. I think you will be surprised, given your comments here, how much more can be done than what could reasonably be called "cosmetic".

Regards,

- Erik

Speaking for myself, I'm happy about the scope of what is being modified, it's just not yet clear to me what counts as being part of the basic game design and what counts as a moddable feature, hence the questions in my other post here:

tm.asp?m=3601817

Ideally, I'd like all of those features to be moddable, but, in practice, I'll take whatever I can get.

I guess it will all become clear in time, but it would be good to know where the boundaries are.
Osito
User avatar
ASHBERY76
Posts: 2079
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:00 am
Location: England

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ASHBERY76 »

Do you guys look at games like SpaceEmpires5 and even EndlessSpace.Those games are basically completely open.They did not care about players messing up the game design.
User avatar
Loose Cannon
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:42 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by Loose Cannon »

Don't worry, Erik. I'll go over things point by point with things that were done in Shadows in BOLD PRINTwith the expression BEEN THERE DONE THAT posted as BT, DT. Other issues will also be listed in bold print.
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: Loose Cannon
Other than the ability to create new galaxies and improve the Galactopedia I don't see anything that greatly improved over Shadows. Did I miss something?[&:]


Er... yes. [;)]

Here's a list of what's new in Universe:

New to Universe!


- The entire Distant Worlds series in one package! Universe includes the Original Distant Worlds, Return of the Shakturi, Legends, Shadows and the new Universe expansion! NOT REALLY

- Comprehensive Modding and Customization Support:
- Allows adding/removing/changing most items: resources (including new colony-manufactured resources), ship components, planetary facilities and wonders, fighter designs, alien races and race families, diplomatic dialog, empire policy, custom characters, ship and base design templates, governments, plagues, research tech trees and more BT, DT
- Can customize most of the images used in the game: ships and bases, fighters, alien races, planetary facilities and wonders, characters, troops, components, resources, ancient ruins, planets, stars, asteroids, animated in-game effects and moreBT, DT
- Use a previously saved and editor-customized game as a map for a new game (instead of generating a new galaxy) NEW
- Powerful new event system accessible from a considerably-upgraded Game Editor. Set up your own storyline in a custom map with triggered events and custom victory conditionsVALUE TO BE DETERMINED
- Add story triggers on specific in-game objects or events, executing one or more actions on other in-game objects (either immediately or delayed)MINOR IMPROVEMENT
- Can replace most of the user interface icons and sound effectsBT,DT
- Add your own custom help files to the in-game Galactopedia NEW BUT ONLY A MINOR IMPROVEMENT
- Switch between different customization sets with a couple of mouse clicks from the main game menu AND HOW MUCH TIME WILL THIS TAKE?
- Comprehensive 100-page Modding Guide that outlines how to make Mods and explains all of the settings in detail WILL IT WORK BETTER THAN THE PIRATE SETTING SLIDER?

- Can now build your own planet destroyer projects in isolated star systems (once required technology researched)MINOR IMPROVEMENT TO TECH TREE
- Allies will make cooperative fleet attacks against common enemies
- A multitude of AI improvements across many areas: resource transport, research pathing, fleets, etc
- Significant performance improvements, especially in mid-late game THESE LAST 3 CAN'T BE DETERMINED UNTIL PLAYED

- A new official storyline built using the new modding capabilities, covering the first war between the Freedom Alliance and the Shaktur Axis, in which you have access to the tech required to build your own planet destroyers, establish the Ancient Guardians and research and deploy the Xaraktor virus.
Now, please don't insult my intelligence again. I was hoping to hear from someone not employed by the company to tell us something, anything, that will MAKE ME WANT TO GIVE YOU MORE OF MY MONEY. i don't want to hear the regular company line that tells us nothing. How badly did you fail Business Management 101? This expansion was supposed to come out first quarter then changed to May 2014. And yet you don't know what it will sell for? ROFLMAO. The first lesson in BM101 is that when you decide to create a new widget you decide what you can sell it for. The second lesson is that you then determine what it will cost you to create it. If cost exceeds projected sale price you then have to determine whether you will A cut costs. B raise price. C drop the widget or D some combination of those 3.

Now here's you final lesson for today. (Hopefully, you won't fail it)
Sentence no. 1. We, the customers, are the important ones.
Sentence no 2. When you forget everything else remember sentence no. 1.
ReadeB
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 am

RE: I see they're building a modding page ...

Post by ReadeB »

"But in the end, for something this complicated, it's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."

Quoted from some guy named Steve... but he probably didn't know what he was talking about.
Post Reply

Return to “Distant Worlds 1 Series”