Underwhelming Attack On Pearl Harbor

[Auchinleck]

I was just about to attack Pearl Harbor. the game is limiting my attack to 4 half loaded jap carriers. I wanted to send 6 even though they are all half loaded, but for some reason that is escaping me if it's a 'rules limitation' 4 is all I'm allowed to select from where I had 6 staged at Fukuoka. Also, I have more carrier planes that are not allowed to be placed on even my biggest jap carriers like the Kaga, Akagi, and Shokaku class CVs. Is this another rule I have inadvertently selected to make sure the Japanese only damage a couple of ships during the attack? One thing's for sure. It's going to take the bang out of Pearl Harbor. I'm not having the same problem fully loading American carriers. Is that supposed to be a game historical comparison that American CVs could carry more aircraft?

[alexvand]

Exactly which optional rules have you selected?

Depending on the rules you've chosen the most you can put on a carrier is 2 CVPs provided their size class totals less than the Carrier's class. (If I remember correctly there is a set of rules that only lets you put one CVP on each carrier, but I never play that way so I can't remember.)
How are you trying to put the CVPs on the carriers?
Which scenario are you playing?

The only being able to send 4 sounds strange. I've had no problem sending 8 Carriers to attack and doing rather well with that. (2 sunk Carriers is pretty good.) Are they all face up? Did you select a Naval action?

[WarHunter]

The 1st questions that comes to mind.

Are you doing a normal Combined impulse?

If yes, Then you should look at using your offensive chit when picking the impulse over again and doing a Super Combined for an unlimited number of air missions.

I hope this helps.

[Auchinleck]

I'm using the Naval Review Details form. Which seems to be the best place to review your carriers and which planes thery have loaded as well. I was able to load 2 planes each on at least two American carriers which are either of the Yorktown or Lexington class using that form. I would think I could do 2 on the Kaga, Akagi, and Shokaku class CVs sinc they are the biggest early war CVs the Japanese have. But I have only been able to load one plane on each carrier. I discovered why I wasn't able to move more ships to Pearl, somehow the game checks sentry, so they can't move until I uncheck that. Then I could send all the ships I have in harbor at Fukuoka. I never checked sentry, the game seems to do that by itself for certain ships there. I'm sure I don't know what triggers the sentry box being checked. I was thinking maybe the other planes couldn't load on the jap CVs for the same reason, that they might be in sentry mode, but that box is not checked for them. This is a Global War, and I have chosen to leave the American Carriers in San Diego, so like historically, the Japanese only get to ravage the American Big Boys at Pearl. It will make for a more even Carrier showdown later in the Pacific.

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Auchinleck

I'm using the Naval Review Details form. Which seems to be the best place to review your carriers and which planes thery have loaded as well. I was able to load 2 planes each on at least two American carriers which are either of the Yorktown or Lexington class using that form. I would think I could do 2 on the Kaga, Akagi, and Shokaku class CVs sinc they are the biggest early war CVs the Japanese have. But I have only been able to load one plane on each carrier. I discovered why I wasn't able to move more ships to Pearl, somehow the game checks sentry, so they can't move until I uncheck that. Then I could send all the ships I have in harbor at Fukuoka. I never checked sentry, the game seems to do that by itself for certain ships there. I'm sure I don't know what triggers the sentry box being checked. I was thinking maybe the other planes couldn't load on the jap CVs for the same reason, that they might be in sentry mode, but that box is not checked for them. This is a Global War, and I have chosen to leave the American Carriers in San Diego, so like historically, the Japanese only get to ravage the American Big Boys at Pearl. It will make for a more even Carrier showdown later in the Pacific.

Few things - the only thing the game ever puts on sentry automatically is convoy points at sea. However I've found that it's very easy to accidentally sentry my own units if I'm not careful with the mouse. Although I wouldn't discount the possibility of a newly discovered or newly created bug, Occam's Razor suggests that the more likely culprit is a few stray mouse clicks.

As for double loading carriers - you can load up to two cvp's per cv, provided that the total class rating of all cvp's is equal to or lower than the class rating of the target CV. If you're trying to load two class 4 cvp's onto the Kaga, it won't happen. Try loading a pair of class 2's (or one class 3 and one class 1) and see if that works.

[Zorachus99]

My 2 cents.

1. Use a Naval to move off the coast of Hawaii. Why? Because Port Strike Phase is before Naval Movement. You cannot move and then port strike.
2. Next Japanese Impulse I use either a super-combined action, or an air action. Both of these allow you to attack with all of your bombers.

If you do pearl on a combined, yes, you only can send 4 bombers.

[warspite1]

Hi Auchinleck. The only way to know definitely whether you have found a bug or not is to tell us which planes you have tried to load on which carriers. I must say I have never had a problem with loading more than one plane, but you have to be certain you do not "overstack". Can you give one example of a CV and the 2 planes you tried to load please?

[Extraneous]

Activity limits:
All major powers (including the units of their aligned minor countries) during their impulse
Unlimited Declarations of war
Unlimited Naval air interception missions
Unlimited Shore bombardment
Unlimited Ground support missions
Unlimited Headquarters reorganization
Unlimited TRS re-supply

These missions occur during every air mission except re-base, naval air and naval air interception
-- Unlimited Combat air patrol missions
-- Unlimited Escorting aircraft missions
-- Unlimited Intercepting aircraft missions


All major powers (including the units of their aligned minor countries) during an enemy impulse
Unlimited Combat air patrol missions
Unlimited Escorting aircraft missions
Unlimited Intercepting aircraft missions
Unlimited Naval movement only when a unit’s base is overrun (see 11.11.6 Overruns).
Unlimited Naval interception missions
Unlimited Naval combat only in sea areas your opponent moved a unit into, and only if they did not try to initiate combat there.
Unlimited Naval air interception missions
Unlimited Shore bombardment if you are playing with defensive shore bombardment - see 11.16.2 Shore bombardment.
Unlimited Ground support missions
Unlimited Re-base aircraft missions only when a unit’s base is overrun (see 11.11.6 Overruns).


Japanese activity limits:
Naval action
No Rail movement
Unlimited Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Naval Embarkation
-- Naval transport
-- Naval combats
No Land movements
-- Land moves
-- Paradrop
-- Unlimited Debarkation (units transported directly into port debark with no land movement cost)
No Land attacks
-- Land attack
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
2x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop this is only possible if your ATRs are carrying units of a co-operating major power that chose a land or combined action.
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Air action
2x Rail movement (You can only rail aircraft units) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
No Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation only if a co-operating major power (that chose a naval or combined action) embarks your unit.
-- Naval transport
-- Unlimited Naval combats
No Land movements
-- Land moves
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
-- Debarkation
No Land attacks
-- Land attack
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
Unlimited Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop this is only possible if your ATRs are carrying units of a co-operating major power that chose a land or combined action.
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Land action
2x Rail movement (You can only rail land units or factories) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
No Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation only if a co-operating major power (that chose a naval or combined action) embarks your unit.
-- Naval transport
-- Naval combat (this does not deny your naval units that stayed at sea from a previous impulse the ability to make enemy naval units fight their through)
Unlimited Land movement
-- Land moves (a land move is the movement of 1 land unit - see 11.11 Land movement)
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Debarkation
Unlimited Land attacks (a land attack is an attack against 1 enemy stack by any number of units - see 11.16 Land combat).
-- Land attack
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land Attack)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land Attack)
2x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission)
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Combined action
1x Rail movement (You can rail land units, factories, or aircraft units) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
2x Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation
-- Unlimited Naval transport
-- Unlimited Naval combat
3x Land movement
-- Land moves (a land move is the movement of 1 land unit - see 11.11 Land movement)
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Debarkation
1x Land attack (a land attack is an attack against 1 enemy stack by any number of units - see 11.16 Land combat)
-- Land attack
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land Attack)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land Attack)
4x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission)
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission and 1x Land movement.
Each Paradrop counts as 1x Land attack.

[bo]

I agree he used a combined attack [4 attacking aircraft] instead of a full air move.

When Day of Infamy is installed you will be able to do a real Pearl Harbour attack, the USA will only be able to move three naval units out before the attack. I have done it over and over with devastating results, unless you have the optional rule "bottomed ships" in effect and then the attack could be less devastating. One game I had three bottomed battleships, not good for Japan.

Bo

[Auchinleck]

I suspect what someone else said was the case. I wasn't paying attention to what class of aircraft I was attempting to load. Whatever the combination, they cannot add up to more than 4, in order to load 2 planes onto each carrier.

[Auchinleck]

I have two things I want to be sure to understand before I start over yet again, and I'm ready by the time I have the Japanese declare War on the U.S. I think this first one was addressed, but to be sure, I attempted to move my entire Carrier strike fleet from Fukuoka to The Hawaiian Islands sea box, but it would only reach as far as the Marshall Islands sea box, which I think I could still attack the port at Pearl, where I had all the American Battleships sleepily in port. But what is unclear is what phase do they attack? The beginning of the new turn allowed me to move the fleet, but there was no phase to attack. Do I attack the next 'Port attack' phase? I thought I read you have to use strategic bombers only to do a Port attack, which obviously are not carrier planes. Also, I take it the time to use the Jap Offensive chit is at this time, so I can have unlimited air attacks during a 'combined acton'. The 2nd thing was, I was attempting to land General Yamashita's HQ corp on the Phillipines, using an amphibious unit. Then I was going to follow with other strong corps on transports that I held back from reinforcing China with. The game would not let Yamashita land. Then I thought I skimmed somewhere in the miles of manuals that you have to break down an HQ corps into divisions, in order to invade with an HQ corps using an Amphibious unit. As a result, my entire invasion of the Phillipines was stymied, because I haven't got the protocol straight for how to threaten MacArthur in the PI, when I start the Pacific war.

[alexvand]

The port attack phase is one of the first phases of the impulse. So you have to move your carrier fleet into position on a previous impulse and then launch your attack the impulse after.

So you move your fleet in one impulse. Then, on the next impulse, do your supercombined which includes all your port strikes and invasions.

[joshuamnave]

Port attacks happen before naval movement, so if you want to do a port attack from a carrier fleet, you have to move the cv's out to sea on one impulse, and attack on the next impulse. This does make it a bit tougher to do a true surprise attack. Any aircraft, carrier or land based, can port strike if it has at least one air to sea factor. Typically, strat bombers are not very good at the job - mostly you're going to want to use Nav's and CVP's.

Yamashita should be able to invade off of an amphib without any problem. Note that you do so in the invasion phase, and that you must have one land move available for each invading unit, as well as one land attack available for each invasion hex. This means you can only do it on a Land or Combined impulse, and if you do it on a combined, you must save enough land moves and attacks for the invasion. Invasions happen after disembarking troops onto friendly controlled hexes, so if your plan is to invade a port followed by disembarking from transports (or to disembark directly onto Yamashita) you will once again have to do it over two impulses. Disembarking ground units that way also uses up a land move per unit.

Also, HQ's can't be broken down into divisions, so not sure what you were reading there.

[Extraneous]

3.1 Sequence of play The sequence of play in a turn is:

A. REINFORCEMENT STAGE

B. LENDING RESOURCES STAGE

C. INITIATIVE STAGE

D. ACTION STAGE
Repeat D1 through D3 until the action stage ends.

D1 Determine weather

D2 First side’s impulse
Every major power on the first side performs these steps:

D2.1 Declare war
D2.2 Choose action
Choose either a pass, a naval, an air, a land or a combined action.
D2.3 Perform actions
The major powers that didn’t pass perform these steps in this order (their action choice will limit what they can do ~ see action limits table):
(a) Port attacks
(b) Naval air missions
(c) Naval movement
(d) Your naval combat
(e) Opponent’s naval combat
(f) Strategic bombardment
(g) Carpet bombing (option 32)
(h) Ground strike missions
(i) Rail movement
(j) Land movement
(k) Air transport
(l) Debark land units at sea
(m) Invasions
(n) Paradrops
(o) Land combat
(p) Air rebases
(q) Reorganisation

D2.4 End of action
Roll to end the action stage. If it doesn’t end, advance the impulse marker the number of spaces shown on the weather chart for the current weather roll. If it ends, move on to stage E—the end of turn.

D3 Second side’s impulse
If the action stage didn’t end, repeat the steps in D2 for the second side.
If the action stage doesn’t end after the second side’s impulse, go back to D1.

E. END OF TURN STAGE
Both sides perform these steps in this order:
E1 Partisans
E2 US entry
E3 Return to base
E4 Final reorganisation
E5 Production
E6 Intelligence (option 63)
E7 Peace
E7.1 Conquest
E7.2 Allied minor support
E7.3 Mutual peace
E7.4 Vichy declaration
E7.5 Liberation
E7.6 Surrender
E8 Victory check (& option 30: factory destruction)

[WarHunter]

Doing a successful Pearl Harbor surprise attack and invade simultaneously is a 2 impulse operation.

1st impulse: Send Carrier strike force to any sea zone that you plan to port Strike from. Try and get into the highest sea box possible.
Expect the allied player to move ships out of the ports in range. USA normally will move 3 ships out of Pearl.

If the turn ends, Stay at sea so as to get a chance to port strike at the beginning of coming turn.

2nd impulse: Pick a combined impulse and use Offensive Chit to make it a Super Combined.
Port attack with all aircraft possible.

After the port strike is done. Continue the super combined with unlimited Air, Sea and Land moves.

[Klydon]

A few observations.

First, Fukuoka is a poor location to stage a Pearl Harbor strike force out of. It takes a lot of sea zone movement to get there and that means you are very low in the sea zone box. If you insist on moving from Japan, then I would say move out of Tokyo.

If you really want to wind up high in the box, stage most of the strike force to Truk. Put your shorter range/slower carriers (like the Akagi) in bases like Kwajalein. This will allow you to strike from the Marshalls in a pretty high sea box, which will absolutely have an effect on how well your strikes go on Pearl Harbor. It also puts the US West coast under threat of attack, so the US has to be careful what they do with the ships out of the west coast or risk having the Japanese take a partial pass on Pearl and go after some other juicy targets in the US West coast ports.

The Japanese will likely not do a lot of damage at Pearl against a good US player. The only thing that will likely be there will be what the US considers its 5 worst battleships. Even if the Japanese destroy them all, it isn't going to markedly change the balance of power in the Pacific, although it will help from the standpoint of having fewer ships available for gunfire support when the amphibs start happening. Any carriers or other type of shipping (convoy-transport and especially amphib) should have a higher priority.

[Numdydar]

Just wonder if what you say is true about the US moving ships out of Pearl, would it be better to attack someplace else rather than Pearl?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Just wonder if what you say is true about the US moving ships out of Pearl, would it be better to attack someplace else rather than Pearl?

Hi Num

Of course I have never played a real opponet, and it would depend on what scenario you are playing. I never really tested Global war that much but I have tested Day of Infamy many times. In Day of Infamy there is no doubt the Japanese should hit Pearl with everything they got, played it over and over and the devastation can be enormous without the optional rule "bottomed ships"

When Japan moves it's carriers into the Marshall sea boxes on it's opening move in Day of Infamy without declaring war on the US, the only option the US has in it's move is to use the combined move or pass. Of course the US would use the combined move so it could get it's 3 finest ships out of Pearl

In Global war they do not have to put any ships in Pearl game rule wise.

Bo

[Joseignacio]

What do you think about the Japanese having ALWAYS a fleet with like 5 or 7 carriers with some of the best CVP bombers at sea close to Pearl Harbour?

When the american guy relocates the fleet previous to war declaration, he can immediately launch a devastating attack. If the american fleet appears, coming from USA, it will reach a very low box and 5 CV should be enough to stand a round of combat counting with the box advantage.

The Japanese would still have enough carriers to blow the Brits apart, with the support of most of the rest of their navy...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

What do you think about the Japanese having ALWAYS a fleet with like 5 or 7 carriers with some of the best CVP bombers at sea close to Pearl Harbour?

When the american guy relocates the fleet previous to war declaration, he can immediately launch a devastating attack. If the american fleet appears, coming from USA, it will reach a very low box and 5 CV should be enough to stand a round of combat counting with the box advantage.

The Japanese would still have enough carriers to blow the Brits apart, with the support of most of the rest of their navy...

warspite1

Not necessarily. The Royal Navy simply needs to place a certain Queen Elizabeth-class battleship in the Indian Ocean and that will put an end to any IJN shenanigans...