N.A.R.A.

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:09 pm

Spending my second day at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For those who have never been it is quite the experience. You name it they probably have it. Unfortunately the trick is finding it. As I sit and wait for my docs to be pulled there are researchers pouring through official reports and communiques, examining blueprints of ships etc. The records are truly amazing...

My pull today consists of:
-the background notes and supporting docs for Romanus' Stillwell's Mission to China
-Incoming Weekly reports for the US Mission to China 8/41-3/42
-Records related to Chinese Army Units generated by the Asst Chief of Staff, Chinese Combat Command.

A day at NARA can be quite informative however the research is time consuming and tedious...it is not like a library where you can simply wander the stacks and pull the docs you want. you have to complete a pull sheet, the the extremely helpful government employees at NARA pull the docs for you at pre-selected times throughout the day. There are only 5 pulls on M-W-F and 4 on T-T. It then can take upto or in excess of an hour for the docs to be delivered to the reviewing room.As an example the background notes referenced above occupy 20 storage boxes alone. Time to go as it appears my docs are ready...

witpqs · Post by **witpqs** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:21 pm

Are you allowed to photograph areas you feel warrant it, or do you have to pay to have them photocopy stuff?

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:31 pm

Photgraphs are allowed of most material.

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:40 am

Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:43 am

Here's another nugget for the fans of the AVG...

witpqs · Post by **witpqs** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:40 am

ORIGINAL: treespider

Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's

My wife is very busy preparing for a trip to visit her family in Taiwan in a few days. I won't ask her now, but maybe when she gets back...

GI Jive · Post by **GI Jive** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:20 am

Nice description of a day at NARA. It takes a certain type of personality to enjoy poring through old documents but I'm one of them. The entire WW2 collection of Army Signal Corps, Navy/Marine Corps, Army Air Force, and Coast Guard photos & film are there. There are still nuggets to be discovered. They do allow you to bring a laptop & scanner in.

Symon · Post by **Symon** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:49 pm

ORIGINAL: treespider
Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's

Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.

fcharton · Post by **fcharton** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:45 pm

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.

Hi John,

If you try, a few guidelines...

1- this is old stuff, written top down and right to left: the title is on the right of the picture, and reads:
Organization of the headquarters of a year 34 (ROC years, add 1911) army.
1 bis - In particular, those horizontal titles you see at the top read from right to left.
2- from right to left, the columns list the officers, and bureaus, in decreasing order of rank/protocol.
3- from top to bottom, you get : title, rank, troops, weapons, automobile, horse.

have fun!
Francois

TOMLABEL · Post by **TOMLABEL** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:35 pm

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama.

That's fantastic, John. But you forgot to say "ROLL TIDE" at the end of that sentence....[;)][:D]

TOMLABEL

TOMLABEL · Post by **TOMLABEL** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:38 pm

ORIGINAL: treespider

Spending my second day at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).

Any chance at finding any documents on what color the Arizona and the other 7 BBs where painted in at the time of Dec. 7th? 5S-Sea Blue or Dark Gray?

PaxMondo · Post by **PaxMondo** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:23 am

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.

Hi John,

If you try, a few guidelines...

1- this is old stuff, written top down and right to left: the title is on the right of the picture, and reads:
Organization of the headquarters of a year 34 (ROC years, add 1911) army.
1 bis - In particular, those horizontal titles you see at the top read from right to left.
2- from right to left, the columns list the officers, and bureaus, in decreasing order of rank/protocol.
3- from top to bottom, you get : title, rank, troops, weapons, automobile, horse.

have fun!
Francois

These are also traditional characters, not simplified as currently used in China. Not sure which ones you are being taught, just be aware. Taiwan and Singapore still use the Traditional characters.

Symon · Post by **Symon** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:16 am

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: fcharton
ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.
Hi John,

If you try, a few guidelines...

1- this is old stuff, written top down and right to left: the title is on the right of the picture, and reads:
Organization of the headquarters of a year 34 (ROC years, add 1911) army.
1 bis - In particular, those horizontal titles you see at the top read from right to left.
2- from right to left, the columns list the officers, and bureaus, in decreasing order of rank/protocol.
3- from top to bottom, you get : title, rank, troops, weapons, automobile, horse.

have fun!
Francois
These are also traditional characters, not simplified as currently used in China. Not sure which ones you are being taught, just be aware. Taiwan and Singapore still use the Traditional characters.

Thanks. The teaching method is pinyin and the simplified characters. So the traditional characters will be difficult to read. Will take some skull sweat, or maybe a conversion chart [8D]

PaxMondo · Post by **PaxMondo** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:39 am

Yeah some of them are similar, some not. I learned the simplified first then later the traditional. Can't write the simplified any more, just can't call them to mind, but I can still read them ok. Oh, and just FYI: then there are also the Original characters. You can identify them as they tend to be "squigglier" as opposed to 'boxy'. The original were changed to the traditional form when the chinese invented printing. The original were too difficult to make wooden block type sets, so they were modified.

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:41 am

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL

ORIGINAL: treespider

Spending my second day at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).

Any chance at finding any documents on what color the Arizona and the other 7 BBs where painted in at the time of Dec. 7th? 5S-Sea Blue or Dark Gray?

Probably...however my trips there are very infrequent and require me to take a day of leave. At most I can sort through 10 boxes or so of documents. As an assist you can e-mail NARA and an archivist may be able to narrow down the search parameters. That is half the battle...the index room has walls of notebooks with indexes that can direct you toward certain boxes...its a very time consuming process.

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:45 am

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: treespider
Here is a nugget for you --- 1945 TO&E for a Chinese Division...some day I will learn to read Chinese kanji's
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama. Think I might can puzzle out some of the library characters. It's a nice document to try on anyway.

FYI - that photo is one part of 3 or 4 of the whole document. As you can see the the page extends to the left. Also the page was part of a folio. I can post some of the other photos later tonight when I get home.

Symon · Post by **Symon** » Thu May 01, 2014 9:12 pm

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL
ORIGINAL: Symon
Been learning Chinese (Mandarin) for a while. Am taking an advanced course at Alabama.
That's fantastic, John. But you forgot to say "ROLL TIDE" at the end of that sentence....[;)][:D]

TOMLABEL

Yeah, I quite forgot about that. So sorry Kelley.

GO Gators !!

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