PDU OFF game -> E15K1 Norm

[GreyJoy]

Am I blind or there's something silly here?
Why there's a producible plane that cannot be used anywhere anytime in the game?

[Spidery]

They were intended to be used on the Oyodo. Apparently they never really worked and only 15 were build and 6 were briefly used for operational testing. They were all lost and the programme was cancelled.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Spidery

They were intended to be used on the Oyodo. Apparently they never really worked and only 15 were build and 6 were briefly used for operational testing. They were all lost and the programme was cancelled.

Thanks, good to kow!
But that could be said for many experimental a/c programs that are rapresented in the game. The difference is while nearly 30 sentais can be converted to ki-94, for example, not a single one upgrades to rhe Norm....pretty weird if u ask me

[PaxMondo]

Nope, but PDU OFF is! [:D][:D][:D]

[rms1pa]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Nope, but PDU OFF is! [:D][:D][:D]

with japan as AI what happens in the game if PDU on?

rms/pa

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: rms1pa

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Nope, but PDU OFF is! [:D][:D][:D]

with japan as AI what happens in the game if PDU on?

rms/pa

No idea ... never looked ... but I think the AI would still follow the progression. That's reason to use the Ironman mods ... Andy has improved all that stuff to make a much better challenge. Playing a stock scen AI is ok for learning the initial 90 days or so, but after that it won't be able to keep up. Ironman can keep you going for +2 years with a little help here and there.

[fcharton]

Hi Greyjoy,

Welcome to PDU Off!

The Norm is not the only one in this case. In my game (stock scenario 2, your mileage may vary), I found three such models:
E15K Norm
C6N1-S Myrt
D1A2 Susie (this might be less damaging...)

And there are a few more models that can only appear in a very small number of planes, that arrive very late in the game (eg Ki 54b)

Why is it so? While there probably is some excellent historical reason that some of our resident expert will detail, I always thought it was invented to keep us JFB busy while we wait for the tartars...

NB : in Tracker, you should better check with the Air Production tab (columns TBO.YTA, Upgrades and Grp), and then finish in the air squadron : for some reason, not every plane arrived as reinforcements is listed there (again, a ploy to keep the OCS JFB busy)

Francois

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Hi Greyjoy,

Welcome to PDU Off!

The Norm is not the only one in this case. In my game (stock scenario 2, your mileage may vary), I found three such models:
E15K Norm
C6N1-S Myrt
D1A2 Susie (this might be less damaging...)

And there are a few more models that can only appear in a very small number of planes, that arrive very late in the game (eg Ki 54b)

Why is it so? While there probably is some excellent historical reason that some of our resident expert will detail, I always thought it was invented to keep us JFB busy while we wait for the tartars...

NB : in Tracker, you should better check with the Air Production tab (columns TBO.YTA, Upgrades and Grp), and then finish in the air squadron : for some reason, not every plane arrived as reinforcements is listed there (again, a ploy to keep the OCS JFB busy)

Francois

Oh Francois, you're right! Even the NF version of the Myrth cannot be used...[:(] need to change my RnD plans again...[:o]
Find it very strange to be honest. The choices of the air-team here aren't understandable imho. Why giving me the ability to upgrade not less than 32 Sentais to the KI-94 II (which arrives in Jan 1946 and surely is a "fantasy plane") and not givining me the chance to have a single Group to upgrade to the Norm that arrives in 1943? Pretty strange if you ask me and enough wonder how much of this is WAD...

[Symon]

It’s a long story, so I hope you are patient. There’s two different upgrade methods for planes and two different approaches to dealing with them.

First is an upgrade “flow” in the Airplane database; one model upgrades to another, and eventually gets to some ‘fantasy’ plane for use in the late ’45, ’46 period. The flow is not exactly historical, but it’s as close as the airteam could get it from the manufacturer records. There are also a couple different ladders to the flow. One specific model will have one upgrade path, another specific model will have a second upgrade path; it all depends on which model the airgroup started with as to which ‘fantasy’ planes it might get.

Second is an upgrade ‘pointer’ in the Airgroups database. This takes precedence over the nominal flow of the airplane the group starts with. The ‘pointer’ allows groups to start with one model, having upgrade flow A, and jump over to another model with upgrade flow B, or even something entirely different. The model jumping upgrades were done because the effected Sentai and Kukotai actually did this. Timtom may have made a mistake or two, but I seriously doubt it was more than that.

That’s how the fantasy planes get into the mix. They were contemplated upgrades for existing machines and are thus, so introduced to accommodate the “past IJ Day” period in game play.

Oddball, onesy-twosy, planes that really don’t have a place in either paradigm aren’t represented in the nominal system. Norm was actually built and was a total failure. My query is why they ever included it at all. So, that’s the philosophy behind the nominal system (PDU=off).

Ciao. J

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Symon

It’s a long story, so I hope you are patient. There’s two different upgrade methods for planes and two different approaches to dealing with them.

First is an upgrade “flow” in the Airplane database; one model upgrades to another, and eventually gets to some ‘fantasy’ plane for use in the late ’45, ’46 period. The flow is not exactly historical, but it’s as close as the airteam could get it from the manufacturer records. There are also a couple different ladders to the flow. One specific model will have one upgrade path, another specific model will have a second upgrade path; it all depends on which model the airgroup started with as to which ‘fantasy’ planes it might get.

Second is an upgrade ‘pointer’ in the Airgroups database. This takes precedence over the nominal flow of the airplane the group starts with. The ‘pointer’ allows groups to start with one model, having upgrade flow A, and jump over to another model with upgrade flow B, or even something entirely different. The model jumping upgrades were done because the effected Sentai and Kukotai actually did this. Timtom may have made a mistake or two, but I seriously doubt it was more than that.

That’s how the fantasy planes get into the mix. They were contemplated upgrades for existing machines and are thus, so introduced to accommodate the “past IJ Day” period in game play.

Oddball, onesy-twosy, planes that really don’t have a place in either paradigm aren’t represented in the nominal system. Norm was actually built and was a total failure. My query is why they ever included it at all. So, that’s the philosophy behind the nominal system (PDU=off).

Ciao. J

Thanks John. Very clear! and it makes sense, obviously.

Maybe (but that's just an humble suggestion), in the DBB scenarios, you could also include those 2 or 3 models that aren't rapresented at all in the game, just for to give some "flavour".
For example, Norm could be used on just a single little Group (the one on the CL Oyodo maybe). Just an idea

Still thanks for the explanation!