Amphibious Landing Questions

[blueatoll]

Howdy all,

I'm about 2 days out of invading Iwo Jima with 3 Divisions, various regiments, 3 Combat Engineer groups, armor, and field artillery all at 100% preparation. Iwo has about 35,000 fightin' mad Japanese on it, the airfield is rubble, the port is disintegrated, and I've been bombing ground units daily for 3 weeks inflicting 100-200 casualties per day. Iwo has been mined for about 2 months as well.

So, with all that, here's are some question:

1. Is it better to have two 100 ship invasion task forces or have four 50 ship invasion task forces?
2. Is there any problem with a Captain commanding an invasion force of AKAs? I've got a couple of high Land ability Captains in charge of my supply fleets.
3. It's May 1944, can AEs resupply at sea? Can AKEs resupply at sea?
4. Is it better to have 1 large 25 ship Bombardment force with 6+ BBs in it or would I do better having my BBs divided up into separate Bombardment TFs? Should I let my DDs bombard as well?
5. My CV TFs are in deep water off Iwo, should I have my CVE TFs in the same hex as Iwo or set them in deep water with Long Range Cap instead?
6. What's the best altitude to set for Avengers to do land bombing?
7. What's the best altitude to set for Corsairs to do land bombing?

Lot's of questions but if I screw this up, it will take 6 months to retry.
Thanks

[witpqs]

My comments in bold.

ORIGINAL: blueatoll

Howdy all,

I'm about 2 days out of invading Iwo Jima with 3 Divisions, various regiments, 3 Combat Engineer groups, armor, and field artillery all at 100% preparation. Iwo has about 35,000 fightin' mad Japanese on it, the airfield is rubble, the port is disintegrated, and I've been bombing ground units daily for 3 weeks inflicting 100-200 casualties per day. Iwo has been mined for about 2 months as well. Depending upon what those defending troops are, you might not have enough combat power in your invasion force. [X(]

So, with all that, here's are some question:

1. Is it better to have two 100 ship invasion task forces or have four 50 ship invasion task forces? The larger the TF the greater the chance of ships colliding. Larger TF concentrate the ASW protection, and allow some types of ships (APA/AKA/AP/AK/LST/etc.) to help other ships unload after they themselves have finished unloading. Your call!
2. Is there any problem with a Captain commanding an invasion force of AKAs? AFAIK rank does not matter to the game, only the leaders' stats. I've got a couple of high Land ability Captains in charge of my supply fleets. AFAIK that is not meaningful.
3. It's May 1944, can AEs resupply at sea? IIRC no, I think it is Jan 1 1945. Can AKEs resupply at sea? Never.
4. Is it better to have 1 large 25 ship Bombardment force with 6+ BBs in it or would I do better having my BBs divided up into separate Bombardment TFs? I think it is better to break them up. Doing so also allows you to send some for replenishment while others keep up bombardments. It is best (if you can do it in a given situation) to bombard every day, both for the direct effects and to slow the defenders' recovery. Should I let my DDs bombard as well? Depends entirely on what return fire is encountered. Being close enough for escorts to bombard can also expose the larger ships to more effective shore-based fire.
5. My CV TFs are in deep water off Iwo, should I have my CVE TFs in the same hex as Iwo or set them in deep water with Long Range Cap instead? In the island hex.
6. What's the best altitude to set for Avengers to do land bombing? Depends on AA fire encountered. They can bomb higher, but 5,000 ft or lower is usually better.
7. What's the best altitude to set for Corsairs to do land bombing? IIRC 1,000 ft. They will take a lot of AA hits.

Lot's of questions but if I screw this up, it will take 6 months to retry. If you are playing the AI, just keep some saves and you can go back a few turns if you have to. Sometimes good for learning. [:)]
Thanks

[blueatoll]

Fantastic, thanks.

[witpqs]

Should have mentioned, make sure the landing TF all have one or more minesweepers in them.

[Gaspote]

5, CVE won't suffer coastal malus when CV do, in this case I would use CVE in Iwo hex and CV in deep water, at one hex range it will be the same for CAP as radar spotted raid from really far.
6, I think it's better to keep them over 6000 feet because under morale decrease faster.

[blueatoll]

I have at least 2 DMS and 2 AMs in each Amphib TF.

2 DMS in each Bombardment TF

1 Dedicated AM Minesweeper force in the van in front of my ASW sweep.

Learned that one the hard way on Tarawa.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Should have mentioned, make sure the landing TF all have one or more minesweepers in them.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

5, CVE won't suffer coastal malus when CV do, in this case I would use CVE in Iwo hex and CV in deep water, at one hex range it will be the same for CAP as radar spotted raid from really far. Yes, I answered only for the CVE. I agree to keep CV/CVL in non-landing hex.

However, there was a misunderstanding clarified some time back. It is only in base hexes that CV/CVL suffer from the penalty. They do not suffer penalty when in coastal hexes that are not base hexes.
6, I think it's better to keep them over 6000 feet because under morale decrease faster.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: blueatoll

I have at least 2 DMS and 2 AMs in each Amphib TF.

2 DMS in each Bombardment TF

1 Dedicated AM Minesweeper force in the van in front of my ASW sweep. These usually have a short life span due to enemy guns covering the mine fields, so I have given up on doing that. Now I only include mine sweeper types in other TF until after the base has been captured.

Learned that one the hard way on Tarawa.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Should have mentioned, make sure the landing TF all have one or more minesweepers in them.

[Gaspote]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

5, CVE won't suffer coastal malus when CV do, in this case I would use CVE in Iwo hex and CV in deep water, at one hex range it will be the same for CAP as radar spotted raid from really far. Yes, I answered only for the CVE. I agree to keep CV/CVL in non-landing hex.

However, there was a misunderstanding clarified some time back. It is only in base hexes that CV/CVL suffer from the penalty. They do not suffer penalty when in coastal hexes that are not base hexes.
6, I think it's better to keep them over 6000 feet because under morale decrease faster.

Learn something from myself but I don't remember saying that [:D]

[blueatoll]

OK, as I'm in 'teaching game' mode, I hit the beach at Iwo, had 22,000 casualties on day 1 which wiped out 4 ARM units and 2 Combat Engineer Units. Four of which (NZ Arm, MAR Arm, 2 CE Reg.) I instantly rebuilt for pennies. The 'good news' as it were was that my 4 Divisions were all 75+% strength and I still had 2 Combat Engineer Regiments. I'm now on Day 3 and I've got the Iwo Fortifications reduced to Level 1, I've got an Amphib HQ and the 3rd NZ Div HQ landed for support, a couple of Art units, and while I'm still taking 2000 casualties to their 1000, I've dumped about 30,000 units of Supplies in the hex as well so we've got plenty of spam and shells.

I feel like I'm gaining on 'em. Still 22,000 casualties? Does that seem close to right? Have I missed something? Surely someone would have gotten fired over this [;)]

[Gaspote]

What was preparation ? Did you send the amphib HQ in the same time ?
During past 3 day,
-What were level of disruption, fatigue and morale ?
-What was your combat mode?
-What is the ratio, on the island ? assault odd ?
-Marines division ?

[blueatoll]

Hmmm....

Well Preparation was 100% for all units.
I sent the Amphib HQ in on Day 2? Should it land one D-Day?
Everyone was at full strength, full morale, no fatigue.
Combat Mode was Combat.
I had a 3:1 troop ratio on the island w/only 2 JA Combat Divisions
1 MarDiv, 2 Army units

So should I be landing MarDivs only? I had been under the assumption that since units like Americal (which hit the beach at my Iwo) were also fine with Amphib assaults.

Long story short, I took Iwo after 4 days of heavy fighting. All 3 of my combat divisions are between 35-55% strength with several independent regiments at below 20%.

Next question, when I pull these troops out, should I co-locate them with their primary HQs? I seem to have read something about splitting them up to rebuild them back faster with high Admin ability leaders.

As always, thank for the help. I've been Grognarding for 38 years and this is the toughest game to know the ins and outs of I've ever played and I've played two complete SPI Campaign for North Africa games and a ton of The Gamers OCS games.

[Amoral]

There are two types of Amphibious HQs

The Amphibious Corps HQs are not special in any way. They should hit the beach with the troops (on day 2 imho). There is no difference between an Amphibious Corps HQ and any other Corps HQ. It is just a name.
Amphibious FORCE HQs are special. They should be loaded onto AGC ships in a separate task force, and they should stay at sea during the whole unloading operation. You start getting Amphibious force HQs in mid '43. There is no reason to ever land these guys. After the beach is secured their task force should return to base and unload at a friendly port.

You should include both types in your invasion.

tm.asp?m=2613158

[Amoral]

The more of these factors are true, the faster your troops will recover:

They are in rest mode
They are in a friendly base
The Base has excess supply (it has 3x the required value)
They have high morale
They have a commander with high ADMIN
They are within command range of a corps HQ
they are within command range of an army HQ
They are withing command range of a command HQ
These HQs have commanders with High ADMIN
(It does not matter if these are the HQs the unit reports to, they just have to be the correct nationality)

Also, each LCU can only recover so many devices per week, so if you break the divisions into 1/3rds they will likely recover faster (the caveat being you will probably have lesser commanders with low admin for your /B and /C fragments. This lesser Admin is usually not as much of a factor as getting 3x the possible reinforcements though.)

[Amoral]

I'll also note that I was surprised at how easily you took this base. When you initially laid out your plans I thought you were setting yourself up for a stalemate. I did not think you had enough AV to force the issue. I would have expected you to have to fight the initial 3 divisions until they were ineffective, then extract them from the beach and replace them with 2 fresh reserve divisions to finish the job. I'm guessing your initial bombardments and bombing, and high proportion of supporting tanks and combat engineers was the difference maker.

[erstad]

I've played two complete SPI Campaign for North Africa games

I never knew that was even possible [&o]

When you say you've been a grog for 38 years - does that mean you started the CNA campaigns 38 years ago and finished them recently? [:D]

[blueatoll]

ORIGINAL: erstad

I never knew that was even possible [&o]

When you say you've been a grog for 38 years - does that mean you started the CNA campaigns 38 years ago and finished them recently? [:D]

I should be clearer, 1 complete game of CNA, 1 complete Gonzala battle scenario (where we learned game mechanics). Finished the games over 2 long years of Wisconsin winters and repurposing the basement ping pong (and plywood) table.

The 'complete' game actually went relatively quickly as the DAK player (my friend Darin) made two huge logistics errors and found his Italian forces out of water (pasta rule) and then found his DAK troops overextended and out of fuel and water. Thirsty tanks and troops don't do too well against the Brits full of Bully Beef. That game taught me how to read complicated rules to my advantage, the value of deep raids, and being where they ain't.

This was 30 years ago so memory may be slightly off, Darin may have capitulated rather than playing out to the bitter end.