Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

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caliJP
Posts: 320
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Location: California

RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

OK I am going to pause here for a few days
But here is a casualty and OOB update as of end of T5

Casualties:
Germans: 85K men, 572 AFVs, 425 planes
Soviets: 880K men, 7938 AFVs (!) , 4800 planes

OOB:
Germans: 3.46M men, 3056 AFVs, 3325 planes
Soviets: 4.64M men, 9114 AFVs, 5971 planes

Comments very welcome.
JP
jwolf
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by jwolf »

Were you evacuating any of your industry by this time in the game?

Any changes of commanders?

BTW nice maps and commentary, looks very good.
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loki100
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by loki100 »

interesting opening, the game is so much more fun if you can agree a non-exploit opening at Lvov and in return the Soviets don't just abandon the Ukraine.

Seems to give both sides the incentive to fight it out and generate lots of movement and smaller pockets as you misjudge things - I'm still caught out by how fast well rested panzers can move
swkuh
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by swkuh »

Indeed, nice maps... thanks. Fast moving panzers are amazing, but when the Soviet steamroller shows up they might not be decisive. I'm sure you'll show your strategy when its time for that, but your thoughts and plans in advance would be interesting to hear.
Gabriel B.
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Gabriel B. »

The axis player did so many mistakes in the center that it efectivly domed the 1941 campaign already .

randallw
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by randallw »

You can't order the formation of airborne brigades; leave them forward, they die and are gone forever.
caliJP
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

jwolf: yes I have evacuating my industry as soon as allowed. I did make a mistake though early on by trying to evacuate HI west of the Dnepr. After doing some calculations I realized this is not necessary, you can survive with just the HI east of the Dnepr.

loki: yes I think the game has been quite enjoyable by both sides with those rules

Gabriel: it would be good if you offered some specific comment on how you would have done things differently

JP
caliJP
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

randallw: you get a bunch of airborne brigades in Dec 1941 regardless, and I found that's enough for me, I don't use a ton of them.

jwolf: by T5, I have started replacing leaders, but that is still WIP at that time. My first priority for APs is to disband all the corps, then I may move a few units between armies (only if I have an army overloaded), and then leader replacement, to get the few good leaders assigned to the right places.
JP
Gabriel B.
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Gabriel B. »

mistake number 1 , Lida group is not routed in turn 1, this creates separation of panzers and infantry and leads to :
mistake number 2 , not establihing a solid supply line acros the Berezina, instead armor gets cut of and leads to :
mistake number 3 , infantry is not able to reach the landbridge .
mistake number 4 , panzers atack again without flank protection and for the second time they get cut of .

It is a downward spiral , that stated from not routing 2 divisions near Lida in turn 1.

randallw
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by randallw »

Those Corps HQs will disband on their own, and won't cost you AP. Might be better off using those AP on something else?
caliJP
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

randallw, I think different people might give a different opinion. I have found that I am not really too AP-limited until at least 2nd half of 1942, for a couple of reasons:
- After you have replaced a few poor leaders with good leaders that don't have a command yet, I find the available leaders left aren't any better than the ones in place, so it doesn't take a ton of APs to round up the leader upgrade.
- Until at least mid 1942, I always find myself manpower-limited rather than AP-limited. I.e between the beating up I get from the Germans, and all the shell units that come back, manpower cannot keep those units anywhere close to full. So why build more? I.e. I don't need any APs to build more units that I don't have the manpower to fill up anyway. I use APs to combine all Cav Div into Corps in Dec 1941, and Tank Brigades into Corps in early 1942. And then I build SUs, specially a lot of sappers.
But it seems burning 50-60 APs in very early 1941 to disband all the corps right away and get them out of my way does not really prevent me from doing the things I listed above.
JP
Oshawott
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Oshawott »

Like caliJP I always disband Corps HQ during the first three turns to bring good leaders to safety and to increase the manpower pool. I also disband the BAK headquarters.
Gabriel B.
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Gabriel B. »

Bak leaders are better than air command leaders ,

4 Bak replaces soutwestern aircomand .
3 Bak replaces orel aircomand
2 BAK replaces western aircomand

1BAK , your call but northwest aircomand is equally bad.
Oshawott
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Oshawott »

Bak leaders are better than air command leaders ,

4 Bak replaces soutwestern aircomand .
3 Bak replaces orel aircomand
2 BAK replaces western aircomand

1BAK , your call but northwest aircomand is equally bad.

Does this mean that you disband soutwestern aircomand, orel aircomand and western aircomand and reasign air bases to BAK HQs?
Gabriel B.
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Gabriel B. »

Yes , I give each 3 more airbases, because it is cheaper than replacing leaders.

spare airbases are used to fill up Reserve front aircommand in turn 4.


Oshawott
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by Oshawott »

I have my doubts about the importance of air leaders. I have Ernst Shakht in Orel/Bryansk Air Command from the beginning of my current game and he now has a record of 33 wins vs 1 loss. Also, one of his air bases turned guard on T12. Of course, with a good leader this might have even been better. Maybe placement of airbases and mix of units is more important?
caliJP
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Location: California

RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

Alright, time to continue this AAR..

T6 North: ouch, surprise, I did not expect the attack across the Narva going behind my first line of defense and pocketing the units here with the help of units coming from the south! No real chance of opening that pocket either… South of Novgorod, the Germans clean up some speed bumps and march east.



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JP
caliJP
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

T6 Center: A German Panzer + Infantry ball pushes east, demolishing whatever I have in front of them. They also cross the Dnepr at Mogilev, so I retreat my line east behind the next river to avoid being easy pocket prey next turn.



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caliJP
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

T6 South: Urgh, my SW Front units that barely escaped from the previous pocket get re-pocketed again. I am able to re-open the pocket in the south with a small counter-attack, but that pocket will sure be closed again and I don’t expect the units inside it will escape. But it may take the Germans an additional turn to clean it up.

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caliJP
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RE: Grand Campaign 1941 - JC vs JP

Post by caliJP »

T6 Odessa sector: Romanians and Germans continue eastward progress. Unfortunately I am not receiving enough units to beef up the defense line, so it is pretty thin right now.


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