Kind of OT: War in the East

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
Feltan
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:47 am
Location: Kansas

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Feltan »

Pompack,

That indeed might make it more interesting. However, I am just not motivated to go back to it.

With the poor design decisions that were apparent to me, I am pretty sure not much play testing could have occurred for the latter half of the campaign scenario. No one with a rudimentary knowledge of history of the East Front could have missed the gaping holes in reality that became apparent from '42 onward. Frankly, I'm apprehensive what I'll find once the Germans don't get annihilated during the first winter.

Regards,
Feltan
User avatar
GreyJoy
Posts: 6750
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by GreyJoy »

War in the West should be a lot better. If i'm not mistaken, they are working on a mega-game that fits the best of AE, WITE and BtR features... should be very good
wdolson
Posts: 7648
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: Near Portland, OR

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by wdolson »

This is news to me.

Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
Image
User avatar
Encircled
Posts: 2095
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:50 pm
Location: Northern England

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Encircled »

A combination of the "chaining HQ's" exploits, the Russian mega corps, the whole morale system and the inability to mount "local" counter attacks without massive German losses after the winter of '41 made me stop playing it.

Might take it up again someday though, but you'd hope the exploit fanatics would have stopped playing it by then
Numdydar
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:56 pm

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Numdydar »

Have you looked at the latest patches? 2By3 have a dedicaded programer continuing to patch the game similar to what michaelm is doing here for AE. Which the latest changes and the Lost Battles expansion it seems pretty good to me. But then I am not an expert on the Russian front either (or much else for that matter [:D])
User avatar
Blind Sniper
Posts: 862
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:19 pm
Location: Turin, Italy

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Blind Sniper »

War in the West should be a lot better. If i'm not mistaken, they are working on a mega-game that fits the best of AE, WITE and BtR features... should be very good

Are you sure?
I know that they are thinking to do War in the Europe, but with 10 miles per hex per weekly turn it will be a no buy for me.
No AE or BtR feauture can work on this scale.
WitP-AE - WitE - CWII - BASPM - BaB

[center]Image[/center]
wdolson
Posts: 7648
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: Near Portland, OR

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by wdolson »

With 10 mile hexes a fair number of naval guns can hit the next hex. This requires some fundamental changes to the naval code.

Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
Image
Dili
Posts: 4713
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:33 pm

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Dili »

Well it is true for land artillery also. Soviet Corps artillery, not even talking about Army level had 20km range.
User avatar
cohimbra
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:59 pm
Location: Italy

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by cohimbra »

---
User avatar
Apollo11
Posts: 24809
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Sabre21

To add my 2 cents, I think it is a pretty good game considering I spent a lot of time testing it. If you like to play the Japanese in AE, then play the Soviets in WitE in the 41 Campaign. It requires a lot of detail in planning but not as much as AE. Turns are week long and I recommend you play it on hard. Once you get a few games under your belt then go to challenging.

I agree with Andy here...

IMHO the WitE is one of the best (if not the best) game dealing with WWII Eastern front! [:)]


It has it's weaknesses, of course - which game doesn't have that (including WitP-AE - just look at the ground combat in it [;)]) but overall it is very good!

As for balancing... well... the WWII was not historically balanced in the first place so any WWII game can't be balanced (just like WitP-AE is not balanced after 1942 [;)]) in that way... [:D]


IMHO the victory for Germany in WitE is similar to victory for Japan in WitP-AE - the only "victory" is to be better than history (i.e. to last longer than it was historically achieved)!


Leo "Apollo11"
Image

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE
User avatar
Sardaukar
Posts: 11295
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2001 10:00 am
Location: Finland/Israel

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Sardaukar »

WitE is very good game, even with it's weaknesses. I have it and one of the expansions, but sadly not much time to play it.
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

Image
User avatar
Feltan
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:47 am
Location: Kansas

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Feltan »

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Sabre21

To add my 2 cents, I think it is a pretty good game considering I spent a lot of time testing it. If you like to play the Japanese in AE, then play the Soviets in WitE in the 41 Campaign. It requires a lot of detail in planning but not as much as AE. Turns are week long and I recommend you play it on hard. Once you get a few games under your belt then go to challenging.

I agree with Andy here...

IMHO the WitE is one of the best (if not the best) game dealing with WWII Eastern front! [:)]


It has it's weaknesses, of course - which game doesn't have that (including WitP-AE - just look at the ground combat in it [;)]) but overall it is very good!

As for balancing... well... the WWII was not historically balanced in the first place so any WWII game can't be balanced (just like WitP-AE is not balanced after 1942 [;)]) in that way... [:D]


IMHO the victory for Germany in WitE is similar to victory for Japan in WitP-AE - the only "victory" is to be better than history (i.e. to last longer than it was historically achieved)!


Leo "Apollo11"

Apollo11,

I think that is kind of short sighted. Germany did have a chance to beat the Soviets, albeit a small one. However, that isn't the real crux of the issue with the game.

One hopes that if you avoid mistakes that you can alter history in a game. In WITE, as Germany, you are doomed no matter what you do during that first winter. Historically, there were insufficient preparations on the part of the German army -- they were over extended and the winter gear for soldiers and equipment (as it existed) was in warehouses in Poland waiting to be shipped. What if the Germans had a more robust logistical tail? What if they had pulled back a little prior to winter to shorten and stabilize their logistical situation?

In WITE you will never know. Because it makes no difference if you are defending east of Moscow or east of Minsk that first winter as the Germans -- you are going to get ripped apart.

In WITP-AE, imagine if all the Japanese carriers were withdrawn in 1942 to reflect the defeat at Midway. That is the feeling you get playing WITE. Defeat is hard coded for Germany, irrespective of any actions you take or don't take.

Regards,
Feltan
User avatar
Apollo11
Posts: 24809
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Feltan

I think that is kind of short sighted. Germany did have a chance to beat the Soviets, albeit a small one. However, that isn't the real crux of the issue with the game.

One hopes that if you avoid mistakes that you can alter history in a game. In WITE, as Germany, you are doomed no matter what you do during that first winter. Historically, there were insufficient preparations on the part of the German army -- they were over extended and the winter gear for soldiers and equipment (as it existed) was in warehouses in Poland waiting to be shipped. What if the Germans had a more robust logistical tail? What if they had pulled back a little prior to winter to shorten and stabilize their logistical situation?

In WITE you will never know. Because it makes no difference if you are defending east of Moscow or east of Minsk that first winter as the Germans -- you are going to get ripped apart.

In WITP-AE, imagine if all the Japanese carriers were withdrawn in 1942 to reflect the defeat at Midway. That is the feeling you get playing WITE. Defeat is hard coded for Germany, irrespective of any actions you take or don't take.

When was the last time you played WitE?

What version was it?

Have you tried the WitE with recent patches (that also affect the "First Winter" in quite a big way)?


The WitE is still supported even after all years (Dominick is writing code) similar to what Michael does to WitP-AE and I am maintaining the updated manual... [:)]



Leo "Apollo11"
Image

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE
Banzan
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:28 pm
Location: Bremen, Germany

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Banzan »

I think you are too pessimistic about the game, Feltan.
The Designers made some decisions, and you don't like. I can really understand this, as there are some decision i can't understand myself, and don't like. But the editor makes it very easy to change any secnario you want to change, besides hardcoded decisions.

The removal of units is not only about "historical correctness", but also part of balancing the manpower. You also get new build divisons that were build for/because of destroyed units, even if you didn't lose them.
If you do way better then germany did in real, you still get the reducded TOEs, but for most players, this evens out.

WitE is a quite good game (in my opnion), and i like it to play it from time to time (both sides). It's major advantage vs. WitPAE is within the "time investment". You need far less time to learn and to play it. A GC can easly done within some weeks.

If you like the Eastern Front theater, i would recommend this game. You only like wargames? I would still recommend this game. [:)]
User avatar
Feltan
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:47 am
Location: Kansas

RE: Kind of OT: War in the East

Post by Feltan »

Apollo11,
As I posted earlier on this thread, I haven't played the game in about a year or so after having spent a lot of time with it.
 
Banzan,
Also, as I previously posted, I think it is a good game too. 
 
Regards,
Feltan
Post Reply

Return to “War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition”