A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere

[Cap Mandrake]

Kaga has Kirishima (as I recall), a CL and 5 DD's with her. Having a CV TF intercepted at night in a gunnery battle is a serious pucker moment. Rord Admirah SPrior and I know this well as it happened to the US carriers in the 17th Battle of Port Hedrand. The CA taffy that was supposed to be Kaga's SCTF escort ran into the RN DD's retreating from Hong Kong and used up its ammo. The BB's at Mersing could join her if she stayed North but there would still be a window of risk.

Given that Kaga is probably now faster than Force Z, it would probably be safe to move due South and try to pick off anything making for Batavia. All 3 RN CL's are sunk or wrecked. PoW was buring when last attacked. That really leaves Repulse and her DD's and perhaps Dutch vessels as the major threat.

Like I said, interesting situation. [:)]

[Cap Mandrake]

Went to the funeral of longtime friend and colleague yesterday. [:(]

It is amazing how evocative music can be in times like that. Catholic mass. A superb Fillipino male singer sang Ave Maria. That completely destroyed me.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Went to the funeral of longtime friend and colleague yesterday. [:(]

It is amazing how evocative music can be in times like that. Catholic mass. A superb Fillipino male singer sang Ave Maria. That completely destroyed me.

[:(]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Japan-mens not-ah worried about Force Z. We put-ah sandbags up where captain stay to stop-ah 15 inch rounds. Rook.

Are those freshwater eels hung up to dry behind that 100mm battery? Unagi...mmmmm....

My guess is aircraft tie-downs.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: uncivil_servant

Really dumb question - not trying to hijack the thread but have game operation question in regards to current tactical situation:

In regards to Task Force Z(?) in close relation to the Kaga Air Group Chickenboy said, "Too crose for comfort, dude-san. Purr back Kaga, lest she be intercepted on the surface. "

My understanding of the game is that Surface Combatants are really restricted in acquisition and engagement as the move in the dark, engage if possible, then move during the day but send out scouts AFTER their day movement. the is no reaction allowed should their aircraft spot enemy vessels. Which heavily tilts balance to air forces vs. surface forces. Following each turn I see vessels move, then two rounds of air turns AM and PM.

If the above is true, how can the allied player in this scenario even hope to catch the carrier group as if he:
* Goes to where the Kaga is now the Kaga will not be there and TF Z will likely not know where.
* Goes to area a few hexes south of current Kaga position hoping they guess the exact spot Kaga will go and that their night time movement will leave them there exactly
* Goes well south of Kaga position hoping to catch them post nighttime and daytime naval movements.

It just seems that, even in the close arena of the Java Sea that the kaga group has a huge advantage (except if torpedo bombers get moved and directed to go after her and Kaga's forces are heavily tilted towards supporting offensive actions and not defensive CAP)

If I was the allied player and knew of Kaga's position I might gamble it but would have little confidence whereas if I was the Kaga controller I'd (maybe stupidly) feel confident a wounded TF Z could not accurately guess my exact movement.

Added: As a question was posed as to possible Allied maneuver -If I was the allied player, and my ships could survive it, I'd do a speed run through either of the two straits to get to the IO banking on the fact that the IJE player would likely do a more normal movement as to not overly gamble on one path or the other and also if they did do a full move as well, gambling on one of the two areas, they would be in very close range to bombers/torpedo bombers stationed in Singers or Dutch areas. The dutch bombers might not be much but enough of them flying in very low under CAP only need a lucky hit or two to put Kaga in for repairs making further Java engagements a more surface vs. surface engagement and making the Grand Retreat a little bit easier.

You're mostly right about some of the limitations / restrictions about a prowling SCTF intercepting an air TF at night. The most likely outcome of an attempted intercept would be the attempted interceptors discovered by aircraft in the morning phase and promptly pummeled.

If the Allies were fortunate enough to react into, guess correctly or run through a maneuvering CVTF with a formidable surface force, a disastrous outcome would likely ensue for the carriers. I've sunk an Allied CV with long lances during a daylight intercept. I've had an Allied CVE TF butchered by three IJN DDs showing up at the wrong time and the wrong place. Interestingly enough, the latter caper was pulled off by one Captain Mandrake in the Marianas scenario PBEM. So he's well aware of what can happen in those circumstances.

So my cautionary tale was meant to forestall a less likely but disastrous outcome. It is a minority outcome in this circumstance, but still a notable risk. A definite high risk: high reward prospect for the Allies. In my opinion, a dangerous path for mini-KB.

As CB said. BTW, in one thread some months back I recall someone saying that surface intercepts of carriers never/rarely happen. I posted twelve from the combat reports of one PBM.

Force Z battleships at least, maybe some escorts(?), have radar which will help night intercepts. Mk I Eyeball sensors work too. POW aircraft could even be set to night naval search (better with radar, but still works to some degree).

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Japan-mens not-ah worried about Force Z. We put-ah sandbags up where captain stay to stop-ah 15 inch rounds. Rook.

Are those freshwater eels hung up to dry behind that 100mm battery? Unagi...mmmmm....

My guess is aircraft tie-downs.

Awkward to move the tie-downs up to the flight deck from there, and they could be hung in the hanger deck area rather than outside.
I think they are privacy curtains for the bucket kept behind the guns. Don't want anyone trying to "shoot the moon".

[Cap Mandrake]

*****************Bridge of Kaga, Dec 8, 1941(d)***********


Aide: Sir, it's about water buffaro sausage experiment. Some of mens in AA batteries begin to comprain.

Captain: Comprain? They are like womans! Terr them anyone who comprain gets job buirding rairroads in Burma.

Aide: HAI!

Captain: By ra way, what-ah size of burrets from Repurse?

Aide: 381 mirrimeters sir.

Captain: Rong or wide?

Aide: Wide, sir. Cariberh.

Captain: Hory crap! That-ah rearry big! Put-ah extra sandbags by my cabin.

Aide: HAI!

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
A Mersing gambit with the KB around doesn't sound much "right" to me. At least not at the very first turns...

Why not? If the IJ is going to pay the price of admission and tie up KB supporting a Mersing landing, why not? It's ahistorical, to be sure, but certainly within the realm of reason for a fully supported and gutsy landing subject to Allied (dog) interdiction.

Because they sailing of Japanese troop transports South of the Gulf of Thailand (Singora) would have triggered British air attacks on said convoys (would have been considered an act of war)..., and the game's programming doesn't allow for such an event. So it's SUPER "GAMEY" to try it! [:-]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Because they sailing of Japanese troop transports South of the Gulf of Thailand (Singora) would have triggered British air attacks on said convoys

This is an old suggestion, made prior to the onset of hostilities. Not much sense in bringing this up now, but that's up to you, I guess.

I dispute the alleged certainty of this action outcome. "Would have" triggered? Not likely. "May have" triggered is more likely. The British ability to interdict such a convoy was pathetic. The Japanese may very well have assumed this underwhelming risk in exchange for decapitating the peninsula early. I would argue that, if the KB was present in support, that this would have been quite possible, hence my 'paying retail' comment.

But the game *does* allow first turn transport to Mersing and points south. I can even get a division and a half onto Sumatra and Java on turn one. The gaminess of an act does not necessarily relate to what the game engine does or doesn't permit.

The Mersing gambit, Fortress Palembang, magic first turn movement are items to be discussed with prospective partners. If they are in agreement about the feasibility of such actions, then I don't see why they should be omitted from a game. Personally, I don't do the former in exchange for the foreswearing of the Fortress Palembang gambit. Quid pro quo. I keep my first turn movement 'reasonable' as well. Others' opinions vary. Your mileage may vary too, of course.

[Cap Mandrake]

I'm not sure the scenario is so improbable. Consider this illustration.

There are many uncertainties.

Subs? Perhaps might spot them but do you start another war based on a night sub report from a Dutch sub?

Maybe Force Z would sortie at night after the uncertain daytime course of the transports but they would be escorted after the sortie of Japanese BB's.

Britain would certainly been under some restraint from FDR not to start a fight in Asia.

Not sure when sunset is on Dec 7 in Mayasia but the transports coudl perhaps alter course even before then.

[Cap Mandrake]

Also, there is this. Why do almost never see Force Z sortie North?

Because everyone knows what is going to happen. [:)] This is something the Amiralty did NOT know in 1941 or they would have behaved differently.

We did not extract any promiss regarding Palembang. I have a feering Kaga and Zuiho may discourage that. [:)]

[BBfanboy]

And why would anyone start a war over a large group of Japanese eco-tourists wanting to get to Endau Rompin National Park via the shortest route?
Just think of the economic benefits!

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

And why would anyone start a war over a large group of Japanese eco-tourists wanting to get to Endau Rompin National Park via the shortest route?
Just think of the economic benefits!

Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endau-Rompin_National_Park

"During the monsoon season that covers from November till March, the park is closed to the public."

That's why. [:D]

[Cap Mandrake]

"5th Special Naval Landing Force and Ecotourism Bn. breaks down closed gate at Endau-Rompin National Park: 2 Park Rangers believed injured in bayonet attack............NEWS AT !!"

[zuluhour]

How's the cherry bosoms? errrr blossoms?[:-]

[Cap Mandrake]

Pranning. Can't berieve how compricated this is.

[uncivil_servant]

[:D] I'm laughing my butt off.. BUT - what are you going to do when it is time to take every single one of those blinking dots in SW Asia, Phirripines, etc, etc

Shame you can't do a Sail-By; drop a group of men off (push them off the boat) and using a stealth-catapult; catapult their equipment and supplies on said stretch of land mass making them go and claim it (with a Flag mind you).

So - what is the division of labour between you and Cap-i-tan Sprior?

[Cap Mandrake]

Rord Admirah SPrior is handling the DEI, Burma, India and the economy. [:)]

Here is short term pran for the South Pacific

[witpqs]

Hmm?

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Hmm?

The Galapagos [:)]