Motorized Divisions

[Oshawott]

I dislike all the motorized divisions in 41. They tie up men and vehicles and most of them are not fit for combat. I keep some with higher CV at the front for example behind rivers. But I have started now to just disband the divisions with 10000 men, 2000 vehicles and 30+ morale. But now I am wondering. Are these divisions coming back as rifle divisions or are they permanently lost if I disband them?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

I dislike all the motorized divisions in 41. They tie up men and vehicles and most of them are not fit for combat. I keep some with higher CV at the front for example behind rivers. But I have started now to just disband the divisions with 10000 men, 2000 vehicles and 30+ morale. But now I am wondering. Are these divisions coming back as rifle divisions or are they permanently lost if I disband them?

I'm pretty sure if you disband them then they are lost completely. One option may be to set the TOE to 50% and leave them in the rear till they convert? Probably as much use digging a defense line as anything else, or burn off the CVs first by using them for counteratacks.

I struggle to get much out of them, but then anything with decent MP and a ZOC is incredibly useful in the early part of the game.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: loki100
... anything with decent MP and a ZOC is incredibly useful in the early part of the game.

Very much agreed here. It seems to me the Soviets need all the counters they can get during the terrible 1941 summer season. This is not a time to be choosy. Anyway, Oshawott, if you just disband any Soviet unit "not fit for combat" wouldn't you remove about half of their starting army?

BTW Oshawott I was stumped by your opening statement until I finally figured out you were talking about the Soviets, not the Germans! [:o]

[gingerbread]

Keep the Mot, but seriously consider disbanding up to 20 of the 41a Tank. The Northern & Southern Front ones are usually prime candidates. You will get points when the useless tanks eventually are scrapped, so it's not a case of use or loose.

The 41b model stays around for a while, so they can be nursed to be useful.

[morvael]

For me anything that moves and has ZOC is useful.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Keep the Mot, but seriously consider disbanding up to 20 of the 41a Tank.

I confess I just don't understand this. Why not at least use them in some counterattacks, even at crummy odds, just to get some bang out of them and slow down the Germans, even if only a tiny bit.

[Oshawott]

Thanks for the responses. I disbanded 4 of the mot divisions before starting this thread. Now I will keep the remaining divisions. I just wanted to free up the 30k men in those low morale divisions. This game is a never ending learning experience.

[Oshawott]

but seriously consider disbanding up to 20 of the 41a Tank. The Northern & Southern Front ones are usually prime candidates. You will get points when the useless tanks eventually are scrapped,

Could you please elaborate on this? Does this mean I get extra armament points when the tanks are scrapped? I was not aware of this. The tanks in those divisions are just horrible. In one week in my current game I lost more then 3000 of these obsolete tanks. How many armament points would one get from 3000 tanks?

[Denniss]

You get armament points for every scrapped item, AFAIR 25% to 33% of build cost. Vehicles are only scrapped one year after the item's end date and if not in use.
Remember the units you disband now will cost you Admin points in the future to re-create Rifle divs or tank brigades.
You could always set these units to 50% maxTOE and refit mode and move them away from the front. So they could recover to better morale levels and/or convert to Rifle Divs/Tank Brigades and free lots of manpower/trucks.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Keep the Mot, but seriously consider disbanding up to 20 of the 41a Tank.

I confess I just don't understand this. Why not at least use them in some counterattacks, even at crummy odds, just to get some bang out of them and slow down the Germans, even if only a tiny bit.

Well, the men can be used in Rifle Divisions just as well. The Tank Div has a lot of vehicles that I don't want to lose. Sure, there are a large surplus of vehicles during '41, but it will get tight in late '42 and that is when the vehicles saved will make a difference.

The other ground elements can also be used in other units, though I do not use the motorcycle units, too expensive in ARM. Then there is...

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

but seriously consider disbanding up to 20 of the 41a Tank. The Northern & Southern Front ones are usually prime candidates. You will get points when the useless tanks eventually are scrapped,

Could you please elaborate on this? Does this mean I get extra armament points when the tanks are scrapped? I was not aware of this. The tanks in those divisions are just horrible. In one week in my current game I lost more then 3000 of these obsolete tanks. How many armament points would one get from 3000 tanks?

... the scrapping dividend, 1/3rd of the build cost is recovered when tanks are scrapped. It does take quite a while, and a model can only be scrapped if it is not in use, neither producing nor in any unit. But hey, it's free ARM.

[Schmart]

ORIGINAL: loki100

I'm pretty sure if you disband them then they are lost completely. One option may be to set the TOE to 50% and leave them in the rear till they convert? Probably as much use digging a defense line as anything else, or burn off the CVs first by using them for counteratacks.

Yes. Manually disbanded Mot Divs and Tank Divs won't regenerate. Surviving Mot Divs will convert to Rifle Divs. Destroyed Mot Divs come back as Rifle Divs. Surviving Tank Divs convert to Tank Bdes, and destroyed Tank Divs arrive as Tank Bdes.

What I often do with the early Tank and Mot Divs, is exactly what Loki describes, set them to 50% TOE, and use them in second or third lines of defence, to build up fort levels, man a reserve line, or garrison some rear area cities in weak sectors. This keeps them out of combat not wasting away their equipment, but still contributing to the defense of the Motherland! [:)]

Plus, often a couple Tank Divs can survive into the early first blizzard phase, which can make for a nice little (big) bonus unit!

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: morvael

For me anything that moves and has ZOC is useful.

+1

[randallw]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

I confess I just don't understand this. Why not at least use them in some counterattacks, even at crummy odds, just to get some bang out of them and slow down the Germans, even if only a tiny bit.

The way the game is set up, tank divisions have a poor MP total; unless the Germans stop right next to you it is a practical impossibility to launch deliberate attacks.