PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

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BattleMoose
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:16 am

PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by BattleMoose »

Hi all,

Me and my PBEM partner have just concluded a game due to decisive results from a CTF battle off the coast of Eastern Australia, Sydney. This is really my first experience of a major CTF battle, against either the AI or Human so don't have any experience to draw on. Its February 1942 and teh question really is, are such results, normal?

We are playing with the Beta.exe and dbb C.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Port Kembla at 91,171

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 53

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 8
F4F-3A Wildcat x 5
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
SBD-2 Dauntless x 54
SBD-3 Dauntless x 90

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 2 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 11 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 1
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
DD Shirayuki
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CA Tone
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CA Furutaka
CA Chikuma
CL Abukuma, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
DD Asagumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 3
CA Kako
DD Kagero

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
14 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(11 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(10 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters to 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Asagumo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Abukuma
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Japanese CV

And the strike in the PM.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Port Kembla at 91,171

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 41

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 6
F4F-3A Wildcat x 4
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9
SB2U-3 Vindicator x 18
SBD-2 Dauntless x 44
SBD-3 Dauntless x 78
TBD-1 Devastator x 30

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
SB2U-3 Vindicator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
SBD-2 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 17 damaged
TBD-1 Devastator: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Urakaze
CL Abukuma, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Isonami, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Akigumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA Furutaka, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Kagero
DD Inazuma
CA Tone, Bomb hits 3
DD Asagumo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Chikuma
DD Ikazuchi
DD Isokaze
CA Kako, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
10 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 6 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Zuikaku
Fuel storage explosion on CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Abukuma
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hiryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Akigumo
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Isonami
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Asagumo
Ammo storage explosion on CV Akagi
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Akagi

My opponent thought that his CAP under performed and I agreed but not sure that they underformed so much as to change the results in a meaningful way?

I am curious as to what the wisdom of the forum will reveal?
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Jorge_Stanbury
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Location: Montreal

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

In the AM attack:
30 zeros airborne, the rest on standby. This vs. 23 fighters and 144 bombers

In the PM attack:
7 zeros airborne, the rest on standby or scrambling. This vs. 19 fighters and 170 bombers

The allied superiority was overwhelming... results seems right

How many carriers did the attack?
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btd64
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by btd64 »

Looks like Midway at OZ. I think based on the numbers of zeros flying cap and the number of inbound aircraft, Its right. We got just as lucky at Midway in june 42.[;)] All thought i'm not sure how many zeros were up at Midway. GP
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BattleMoose
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by BattleMoose »

Thanks for the replies, I had the 4 USN carriers launch the attack.
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Icedawg
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Location: Upstate New York

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Icedawg »

What happened in the Japanese attack on the allied CVs?
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Icedawg
Posts: 1613
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Location: Upstate New York

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Icedawg »

If you thought your CV engagement was unbalanced, here's one that's even worse (luckily it was in my favor). Kind of felt bad for my opponent for a bit - he was on the bad end of some really lousy rolls.


July 28, 1943 - Another day that will live in infamy.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Enggano at 43,94

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 173
B6N2 Jill x 132
D4Y2 Judy x 236
D4Y3 Judy x 21

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 49

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 9 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed by flak
D4Y2 Judy: 1 destroyed, 17 damaged
D4Y2 Judy: 5 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Gillespie, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Stanly, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Nashville
CV Essex, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Gansevoort, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
DD Bancroft, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
CA Quincy, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Frankford, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Portland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Hobby, Bomb hits 1
CL Phoenix, Torpedo hits 1
CL Concord
CLAA San Diego
DD Stuart

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
19 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
20 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
23 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
18 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
1 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
13 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
2 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
20 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
8 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
11 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
13 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
11 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
20 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
20 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
14 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
12 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
21 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
28 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
10 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb
8 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y2 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-35 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 4 minutes
VF-37 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
VF-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
VF-6 with F6F-3 Hellcat (1 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-3 Hellcat (1 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Hornet
Magazine explodes on DD Gillespie
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Gillespie
Magazine explodes on DD Gansevoort
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Stanly
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Bancroft
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Frankford
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA San Francisco


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Batavia at 46,98

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 193

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 82
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 83
SBD-3 Dauntless x 33
TBF-1 Avenger x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5c Zero: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 20 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 43 destroyed, 6 damaged
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 2 destroyed by flak
SBD-3 Dauntless: 15 destroyed, 3 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak
TBF-1 Avenger: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 1
CV Zuikaku
BB Haruna
CVL Shoho
CV Akagi
CVL Zuiho
BB Hiei
CV Hiryu
BB Musashi

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
5 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
281 Ku S-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 24 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
Akagi-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 24 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
Kaga-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 24 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
Soryu-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiryu-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 20 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
18 planes vectored on to bombers
Junyo-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
Unryu-1 with A6M5c Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes

PS - the bomb hit on the Kaga caused a whopping total of 1 Sys damage.
spence
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Location: Vancouver, Washington

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by spence »

Looks like Midway at OZ. I think based on the numbers of zeros flying cap and the number of inbound aircraft, Its right. We got just as lucky at Midway in june 42. All thought i'm not sure how many zeros were up at Midway. GP

The Japanese got lucky at Midway. They just had used it all up by 1020. They had 41 Zeros on CAP when the bombs came down on Akagi, Kaga and Soryu but 20 odd were tangling with Thach and his 6 Wildcats and the rest were attacking Torpedo 3. Meanwhile they didn't even see Scouting/Bombing 6 and they ignored Bombing 5 because they were fixated on Thach and the torpedo bombers. The fact that the Americans had fed Kido Butai's CAP one unescorted squadron at a time for 3 hours was simply too good to be true - and then it wasn't true any more at all. And then the IJN CAP blew it because no one was in charge.



Numdydar
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:56 pm

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Numdydar »

Way too little CAP for the Japenese CVs too imho. I have anywhere between 40-60% CAP on all CVs for this very reason. I'd much rather lose DBs and TBs than the platform they are riding on [:D]
 
Where are the other CVs? Why was his CV TF split up? Until Japan has completed the expansion phase, the KB needs to stay togeather for this very reason. If Japan needs CVs for other activities, then that is what the CVLs and CVEs are for [:)]
 
So it was not bad die rolls that sank your game (pun intended [:)]) it was not good decisions by him.
BattleMoose
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:16 am

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by BattleMoose »

What happened in the Japanese attack on the allied CVs?

It was virtually non-existent. He instead chose to port bomb Sydney, it had almost no ships in it (I had prior warning) and a decent land based air CAP.

In both strikes about 20-30 Japanese planes attacked my CTF and in both instances got slaughtered by my CAP.
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Icedawg
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Location: Upstate New York

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Icedawg »

ORIGINAL: BattleMoose
What happened in the Japanese attack on the allied CVs?

It was virtually non-existent. He instead chose to port bomb Sydney, it had almost no ships in it (I had prior warning) and a decent land based air CAP.

In both strikes about 20-30 Japanese planes attacked my CTF and in both instances got slaughtered by my CAP.

Then that's his fault. He either wandered into an area with known enemy carriers and didn't have his guys set to naval attack, or he didn't search adequately to realize your carriers were around. That's why I always keep my carrier air groups set to naval attack. If I might want to hit some other target, I set a secondary target.

In any event, your opponent shouldn't blame the game. He just made some bad choices and got his butt handed to him as a result.

Edit: If anyone has a reason to be a bit miffed at the game engine, it might be my opponent (see post above). He was greatly outnumbered, but the result was still ridiculously skewed in my favor. I should have had at least a carrier or two with some slight/moderate damage and he came up with a big fat goose egg.
Numdydar
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:56 pm

RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: BattleMoose
What happened in the Japanese attack on the allied CVs?

It was virtually non-existent. He instead chose to port bomb Sydney, it had almost no ships in it (I had prior warning) and a decent land based air CAP.

In both strikes about 20-30 Japanese planes attacked my CTF and in both instances got slaughtered by my CAP.

SYDNEY!!!!

He took a partial CV fleet to Sydney and used CV trained pilots on a Port attack [X(]? Wow.

Japan's KB fleet should be mainly used ONLY against another CV fleet. Certainly not against a major base way outside the main operational area. I don't care what he thought was there. After PH, there is no reason to attack any port anywhere with CVs unless you KNOW it is lightly defended AND there is something there worth the cost in planes/pilots just due to AA.

Japan's initial CV pilots are the best in the game. The last thing you want them to do is die on missions way out of the area for little to no gain. Japan will NEVER get these pilots back so every time you send them off on a mission, you need to ask "Is this worth losing my pilots for?" And a Port attack on Sydney is definately NOT one of those missions.
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

The only missing CV is Kaga, so not entirely a partial fleet... bigger issue is the missing Kongos... I cannot see any BB in the report
Kongos have good AA; they would had killed some bombers, and more important, receive some of the punishment the CVs took
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geofflambert
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by geofflambert »

Carrier squadrons are usually not very good at attacking ground targets. If you're training them to get better at that, you're making a big mistake in my view. Only order that when you are 100% certain there's not only going to be no enemy carrier response but no land based response of any credibility. Your opponent needs to get 100 lashes with a wet noodle so he never does that again.

Numdydar
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

The only missing CV is Kaga, so not entirely a partial fleet... bigger issue is the missing Kongos... I cannot see any BB in the report
Kongos have good AA; they would had killed some bombers, and more important, receive some of the punishment the CVs took

Ah. Miscounted [:(] Does not take away from my other points though [:)]
BattleMoose
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by BattleMoose »

I think Kaga or at least some other CVs/CVE/CVL where in a separate fleet in the same seazone escorting tankers. For what its worth.
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Feltan
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Feltan »

Not at all unusual.

The results match what one would expect given the description of what the Japanese player was doing.

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LoBaron
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by LoBaron »

Plausible results looking at the odds. Your opponent screwed up his settings nicely looking at the fighters on CAP. It did not underperform, it simply was not there.

This is what happens when you combine strategic mistakes with tactical mistakes.


That said, since when is a combat result supposed to be 'fair'? In PBEM your #1 goal should be to make sure it is not. [:D]
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Endy
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Endy »

Hi,

since I was the moron Japanese player I wanted to add a few words explaining myself :)

1. There were 5 carriers, with Kaga being elsewhere. The carriers were split into 2 TFs but both were in the same hex so my reasoning was they are going to cover each other (apparently not..) The decision to split them 3:2 was because I had some lousy raid participation in an earlier battle where all CVs were together, perhaps 25-30% of the bombers even took off with good leaders, morale etc. I read somewhere there's a hard limit of 200+ random 100 planes when rolling for coordination in a Japanese CV TF so I decided to split it, but still keep them in the same hex as I thought planes from both TFs are gonna scramble in case of an attack.

2. Both CV TF's had a CA and a few destroyers. Both CV TF's were also following a surface TF at 0 with Kongos and destroyers in it. I'm guessing the AA from them did not influence the result? Do the BBs need to be in CV TF to use their AA? I thought it was hex thing, same as land combat, but that's another newbie mistake I guess...

3. Only 2 or 3 bomber squadrons were set to port attack, the rest on Naval, even without a secondary order. So the majority should have gone for Aliied CV's which they didn't, not to mention the lack of escorts... Again, I seemed to be having lousy rolls for CV bomber flights with majority of them sittin idle.

4. All Zero squadrons from 5 CVs were set at 60% CAP. I thought that's gonna be plenty but apparently it needs to be set higher? What is a generally a good number? 70%? 90%? OR is it better to have dedicated squadrons at 100% cap and some at 0% for escorts? What's the consensus?


Anyway, sure, I put myself in that position since I only suspected Saratoga in the area based on an earlier a sub sighting. It was supposed to be a surprise strike on Sydney to take it out but I spoiled the surprise a turn before when my CVs attacked some other TF. Anyway, I decided to linger and strike Sydney anyway with a few squadrons, while the rest remained on naval strike. With 60% cap I figured I as pretty safe but you can see the results :)I was very surprised at the results because my planes took ages to kill the escorts, despite them being outnumbered 53 zekes to 23 allied fighters. Usually when I'm outnumbered like that I get my escorting planes all shot up and the bombers suffer even worse, that's why I was surprised the allied losses were so light.

One way or another, after suffering such an early Midway I decided to forfeit the game, feeling a bit cheated by the game engine out of a few months' time but I guess I brought it all on myself :) I was just a bit sad the game decided to punish me so harshly for one mistake (2 CVS sank immediately with 2 going to follow next turn due to damage and fires). If you guys have any advice on how to avoid such disasters in the future I'd be grateful :)
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by btd64 »

First of all, NEVER GIVE UP!!! I don't know how long you have been playing this game, but I'll tell you I've been playing it long before I joined this forum and I have learned by getting my ass kicked. Just last year I made the mistake of bombing lunga to support a landing and the KB showed up 3 days later and cleaned my clock. The game has a LOOOOOONG learning curve. Just a note, Depending on the number of fighters I have available, I set cap anywhere from 70 to 90%. Just as mentioned in this and other posts, I would perfer to loose DB's instead of their home(CV's). Even for the allies, If you loose a bunch of CV's, it hurts. All though the Allies do recover quicker. Anyway, Keep on playing this great game. The cheapest game you can get per hours of FUN. Key word FUN. Its a game.[:D][:D][:D]
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: PBEM CTF strike, fair results?

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

I think the biggest issue was failures in NAV_SEARCH (a southern, bloodier Midway!) Your Kido Buttai was certainly blind based on point #3... your enemy detection level was very low, otherwise you would have launch something against his carriers.

Did you have any % of your carrier bombers in search? if you only send the float planes to search, then you have a good chance of no search at all if weather is just a bit ugly. Carrier planes in the other hand flight more often). This is compounded by the fact you were far, far away of from your land based umbrella. Land bombers and flying boats are critical in giving you awareness of what are you fighting against. In this case, since you were close to Sydney, they were giving the Allies a good DL of your forces.





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