Counting factors on the Russian Front

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alexvand
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Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by alexvand »

In another thread a few other players suggested that you should count the combat factors of the Russians and the Germans on the Eastern front. When the Russians have more they should go on the offensive. At least that seemed to be the suggestion.

Is that really an effective way to decide when to go on the offensive as the Russians? In my current game the Russians do indeed have more combat factors, but an awful lot of them come in the form of 2 or 3 factor cav, 3 and 4 factor militia and other junk. The Germans don't have anything with less than 6 factors and not even many of those. (I'm not counting those Axis minors, they're busy chasing partisans. About all they're good for.)

I've always struggled with this. When do the Russians attack?
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d

In another thread a few other players suggested that you should count the combat factors of the Russians and the Germans on the Eastern front. When the Russians have more they should go on the offensive. At least that seemed to be the suggestion.

Is that really an effective way to decide when to go on the offensive as the Russians? In my current game the Russians do indeed have more combat factors, but an awful lot of them come in the form of 2 or 3 factor cav, 3 and 4 factor militia and other junk. The Germans don't have anything with less than 6 factors and not even many of those. (I'm not counting those Axis minors, they're busy chasing partisans. About all they're good for.)

I've always struggled with this. When do the Russians attack?
When does any country attack?

I go by combat factors myself - and that applies to just about all war games I've played.

When you have more, thin your line somewhere and build a preponderance of strength against the opponent's weak point.

So if your have a 5:4 advantage and attacks at 4:1 are good while attacks at 3:2 are bad, ...
- Reduce your front line so in most places your enemy has a 4:3 attack ratio; that should enable you to get 4:1 in at least one point in the front line.

If you are too timid, your opponent gets to reposition his units freely and might even be able to get 4:1 against you at some point. Personally, I pay my soldiers to fight, not sit around complaining about the food.[;)]
Steve

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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

My Dad taught me an important rule of WiF strategy. He said
Planes kill ships and land units. But planes are only vulnerable to other planes

Now, always be on the lookout for an opportunistic chance to beat up an isolated stack or something, but "When am I ready to go on broad offensives?" is answered by "When my fighters are beating up his fighters." Defensive ground support is hugely powerful. A couple of Stukas/Sturmoviks getting through can easily boost the defending factors by 50-80%, which will cost you a couple of odds shifts, and since the attack is already committed to, will mess up the attacker something awful.


I don't know how easy something like this is to do in MWif (it's easier over the board or on Vassal), but try playing a "game" where nobody is allowed any fighters. Just lots of land units and LND. Very quickly, every attack will grind to a halt, because the application of defensive air support is far more powerful than offensive uses of airpower. Ergo, attacks can only succeed when your opponent can't deliver those defensive ground supports. And you'll know you have that when you win the fighter war......


That's how I've always measured it anyway.
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

My Dad taught me an important rule of WiF strategy. He said
Planes kill ships and land units. But planes are only vulnerable to other planes

Now, always be on the lookout for an opportunistic chance to beat up an isolated stack or something, but "When am I ready to go on broad offensives?" is answered by "When my fighters are beating up his fighters." Defensive ground support is hugely powerful. A couple of Stukas/Sturmoviks getting through can easily boost the defending factors by 50-80%, which will cost you a couple of odds shifts, and since the attack is already committed to, will mess up the attacker something awful.


I don't know how easy something like this is to do in MWif (it's easier over the board or on Vassal), but try playing a "game" where nobody is allowed any fighters. Just lots of land units and LND. Very quickly, every attack will grind to a halt, because the application of defensive air support is far more powerful than offensive uses of airpower. Ergo, attacks can only succeed when your opponent can't deliver those defensive ground supports. And you'll know you have that when you win the fighter war......


That's how I've always measured it anyway.

All true. However, you need boots on the floor to kill enemy units. And there isn't talking about going on an all-out offensive here. As soon as the USSR has got the upper hand in land combat factors they should start attrition warfare. The Germans can't have planes everywhere. Extract units the way Steve has described towards enemy stacks which you might want to attack, taking into account the postitions of the enemy units. That includes the ground support possibilities the Axis has.
The goal is to make the Germans lose units, not to gain ground or aim for a large offensive on the front. Kill the enemy in such a manner that he will lose at least the same number of combat factors as you will probably lose. You put in one lousy USSR unit as loss taker, to prevent the loss of important USSR units and you will slowly see the demise of the German attack possibilities. If you can attack a German stack out of three hexes, with at least five good USSR units and a crappy one, in most cases you lose the crappy USSR units and the German losses are at least a unit too.

Since you have more units that the Axis on the board (even if a lot of them are crappy ones), you can affort to lose units and the Germans can't affort it in the long run. Also, your reinforcement arrive almost directly on the front, whereas the Axis still need to rail or move those units in from far, far away...

Peter
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by WarHunter »

Warhunter's Rules to attack by as the Soviet player.

1. You can roll a one and still smile afterwards. This makes the axis nervous. Attack!
2. The Axis player has stopped attacking you. Fear of losing even a division fills his mind with dread. Attack!
3. An abundance of cheap units means attrition is in your favor. Attack!
4. Your line is 2 deep. Attack!
5. When there are no HQ's left to flip units over. Beware of attacking. The axis back hand blow will drive you into the dirt.
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alexvand
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by alexvand »

The thing I'm afraid of is flipping. The Russians launch a counter attack and flip and then the Germans get a bonus on their next attack. (I play with the 2d10 chart.)

As long as the Axis units are face up and can take advantage of a bunch of facedown Russian units I am very hesitant to attack.
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by Ur_Vile_WEdge »

That's what your HQ are for, if the attack goes badly, and a bunch of guys flip, Zhukov and Koniev to the rescue! Just make sure you have enough in the way of air reserves to absorb the counterattack, because you're doubling down by flipping the HQ.
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by WarHunter »

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d

The thing I'm afraid of is flipping. The Russians launch a counter attack and flip and then the Germans get a bonus on their next attack. (I play with the 2d10 chart.)

As long as the Axis units are face up and can take advantage of a bunch of facedown Russian units I am very hesitant to attack.

Don't let the fear of flipped units persuade you not to attack. Its part and parcel the ante both players risk to the pot.

Just try to minimize the loss if it comes to flipping over for good.
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by michaelbaldur »


most importantly. build your MOT division for cheap losses
the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

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if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com
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alexvand
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by alexvand »

I actually prefer to build the terrible INF units and break them down into divs. It's cheaper than building the Mot divs.

Unlimited breakdown has an interesting affect on the Eastern Front. I don't scrap any Russian units and break down all the bad ones and end up with a lot of divs.

Not sure whether I like that yet or not.
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by brian brian »

the Russians need to scrap lots of infantry units to build up their combat factors / BP spent. BPs are best spent on quality units, aircraft, and Offensive Chits. Far more bang than a horde of pre-war infantry Armies.

and they need to attack any single German panzer corps at any odds of 1:1 or better.

as their own armored forces build up, they can use them to call the assault table to kill good German units.

those last two tactics start to break the German morale and lead them to retreat.
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RE: Counting factors on the Russian Front

Post by Centuur »

That correct. So you use those terrible units to take as losses during the year of attrition warfare in Russia and scrap them after they have been destroyed...
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