[FIXED B517] issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Moderator: MOD_Command
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
I am done with command it is junk I spent weeks working with it and all I have done was paid for a bata. Something that is not ready for real naval combat but airplanes are fun though.. I think the programmers ond the people running this show feel the data base is the path to success put this examples shows that the data base can't be the only part of their success, the application has a role to play and can not be neutral. I will check the updates once in a while to see if they fixed the issue but I can't finish my scenario And I won't dumb it down to make it playable. This needs to be a priority fix, if it can be fixed.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
I see. [8D]
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Not sure I'll be helping that much, but I personally would tend to rarely go for a BOL attack with a Harpoon, especially from a sub. On the merchants in question, you'd normally have a decent fix on their position, certainly enough to get a very good attack albeit not BOL. In effect you'd have a close approximation to where they are.
I suspect that's not far removed from how they'd have been used in reality?
The attack on your convoy struck me as well balanced to be truthful.
I suspect that's not far removed from how they'd have been used in reality?
The attack on your convoy struck me as well balanced to be truthful.
"Alas poor Yorick,I knew him Horatio"
#1 Quote of the Harpoon Community.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Captains of nuclear subs do not deal in approximations. It is eather done right or it is not. The current doctrine has radar on. That has to be off. The aircraft from England would assure that. That has to be corrected. The first two shoots have to be at destroyer number 2 and then you can kill the merchants. Second two at merchants. Move, reastablish shoot 4 more and then evade away from convoy. Then wou work your way back from the rear if you have any torpedoes left. You have to get close enough to see the second destroyer and the harpoon ca only be active for one mile before hitting it.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Thank you for your feedback.
For your information, technological levels are used in a multitude of places in sensor & weapon mechanics, including initial detection / counter-detection (stealth & jamming), contact TMA, classification & identification, weapon endgame calculations (incl. countermeasures) and more.
My understanding from your description is that the weapon's actual seeker activation point is several nm ahead of the point where the player actually desires the activation to take place. If this is the case then we will investigate the issue and apply any corrections as approrpriate & feasible.
Thanks again.
For your information, technological levels are used in a multitude of places in sensor & weapon mechanics, including initial detection / counter-detection (stealth & jamming), contact TMA, classification & identification, weapon endgame calculations (incl. countermeasures) and more.
My understanding from your description is that the weapon's actual seeker activation point is several nm ahead of the point where the player actually desires the activation to take place. If this is the case then we will investigate the issue and apply any corrections as approrpriate & feasible.
Thanks again.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Now I think you understand the importance of this.
Now when the point is made clear, you move the thread to this forum. Let's not let others voice their opinion. And what about all the other programmable weapons?
Now when the point is made clear, you move the thread to this forum. Let's not let others voice their opinion. And what about all the other programmable weapons?
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Suspect technical support would be the right place to be fair.
I don't know if I am misunderstanding somewhat. I don't think most people fire BOL attacks off from a sub at a relatively imprecise target.
So for your scenario, I waited until I got a decent fix sufficient for firing a manual attack. That way the seekers would delay going active I suspect?
What I was trying to explain is that you can do a manual Harpoon attack against a target that isn't that precise even without using a BOL attack.
"Alas poor Yorick,I knew him Horatio"
#1 Quote of the Harpoon Community.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
The issue was reproduced and resolved.
Applied in Build 509: When performing an explicit BOL attack (ie. Ctrl + F1), the weapon activates on the BOL point location instead of ahead of it.
Applied in Build 509: When performing an explicit BOL attack (ie. Ctrl + F1), the weapon activates on the BOL point location instead of ahead of it.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Well, you guys/gals know how to make an upset customer feel better and eat crow. [:D] thank you all very much. I will try it tomorrow morning. Back to work on scenario 2 with new vigor.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
So for your scenario, I waited until I got a decent fix sufficient for firing a manual attack. That way the seekers would delay going active I suspect?
That is correct. If you just shoot and let the harpoon go active 4 mile from the target, the Sovrememy will Jam and shoot down your shot, her radar goes active, missiles shoot down the harpoons. If the harpoons go activated 1 mile from the destroyer because you got close enough for sonar to determine exact position, she can't respond fast enough and takes the hits leaving the trailing end of the convoy exposed. Your position won the day.
This game is getting better, today when testing, after the hits I put on Sovrememy, the convoy turned, as did the Udaloy, which put me right on her starboard side and her sonar had me. I could not evade. I waited to long after my shoot before moving. This is a prime example how the Udaloy and Sovrememy complimented each other and why they are very tough together.
-
- Posts: 279
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:00 pm
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
I'm glad it had a happy ending. And I learned a new tactic for the Harpoon missiles from all this, as I didn't realize that we could delay the seeker turning on to help the missile to be more of a surprise to the target. [:)]
In the future, it would be neat to have different targeting and terminal behavior options for these systems as described here:
http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Harpoon.html
The kind of support shown from the development team was certainly worth the price of admission for this sim.
In the future, it would be neat to have different targeting and terminal behavior options for these systems as described here:
http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Harpoon.html
The kind of support shown from the development team was certainly worth the price of admission for this sim.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Me to. I am getting what I wanted from this game. ,!!! No,,, wait for it !!! Simulator.
I think the old harpoon game worked that as way as well. It adds a new tactic to the game. This should work with P3 Orians as well with their radar active or E3 sentries.
Now we got to get the word out.
Can I download B509 and if so, where.
I think the old harpoon game worked that as way as well. It adds a new tactic to the game. This should work with P3 Orians as well with their radar active or E3 sentries.
Now we got to get the word out.
Can I download B509 and if so, where.
-
- Posts: 279
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:00 pm
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
I think we have to wait for 509, some of those builds are the betas where they fix the problems and such. The public might get build 511 for example, which has more fixes, but we have to be a little patient for them. They do come out every few weeks it seems though, so you don't have to wait too long. [:)]
I know what you mean regarding tactics and such, it's pretty fascinating what systems from the 70's and 80's were capable of. I had posted before about some various Harpoon models using intermittent radar instead of a constant seeker, some computer system that calculated multiple Harpoon launches and multiple simultaneous axis of attack and time on target, mixed with a few of them going wave height into the target, and others doing terminal pop up's just over a kilometer from the target ship.... If we ever get that kind of modelling in this sim well...
You can read up on those capabilities in the book on this site:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA553&lpg=PA553&dq=Harpoon+terminal+pop+up&source=bl&ots=hI_vMPYX6-&sig=6gdmdUC4Y1J5SbHeAVqXNOwLD6E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=c1AsU6HXBOGyyAHz2YD4BQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Harpoon%20terminal%20pop%20up&f=false
Anyway, the above link is chock full of interesting features of the Harpoon missile systems.
I know what you mean regarding tactics and such, it's pretty fascinating what systems from the 70's and 80's were capable of. I had posted before about some various Harpoon models using intermittent radar instead of a constant seeker, some computer system that calculated multiple Harpoon launches and multiple simultaneous axis of attack and time on target, mixed with a few of them going wave height into the target, and others doing terminal pop up's just over a kilometer from the target ship.... If we ever get that kind of modelling in this sim well...
You can read up on those capabilities in the book on this site:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA553&lpg=PA553&dq=Harpoon+terminal+pop+up&source=bl&ots=hI_vMPYX6-&sig=6gdmdUC4Y1J5SbHeAVqXNOwLD6E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=c1AsU6HXBOGyyAHz2YD4BQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Harpoon%20terminal%20pop%20up&f=false
BlockIA: the origional missiles used a popup terminal maneuver (The missile climbs sharply about 1.8km from the target, then dives into it at an angle of 30 deg)
Block IB incorporated an advanced guidance package for the Royal Navy, which wanted a sea-skimming terminal phase for submarine-launched Harpoons. Block IB and later versions can fly dogleg paths to the target area; their radars can be switched on intermittently. The missile can approach its target either at a shallow angle or via a popup. Block IB for the U.S. Navy had a new sea-skimming approach and had better ECCM.
Block IC gains range and has a selectable terminal trajectory as well as improved ECCM. It can fly several doglegs to the target (waypointing), concealing the position of the firing ship. Block IC adds the option of a high-altitude flyout (To avoid friendly ships) or can sea-skim before beginning its search. It can also make a lower-apogee popup attack. This version also adds a selectable search pattern (Earlier versions were preset as narrow, medium, or wide).
A ship equipped with the improved Harpoon fire control computer (SWG-1A) can use waypointing to arrange for several Harpoons to arrive simultaneously from different directions. Production began in 1984.
Anyway, the above link is chock full of interesting features of the Harpoon missile systems.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
Brilliant. This is where the application has to play its roll in allowing the player to select these options and methods of fireing solutions. Placed in a model that is broad enough that can simulate different weapon without having multiple different firing procedures. A balance. Something to strive for.
RE: issue with Only Bearing Attacks with Harpoons
For your information, technological levels are used in a multitude of places in sensor & weapon mechanics, including initial detection / counter-detection (stealth & jamming), contact TMA, classification & identification, weapon endgame calculations (incl. countermeasures) and more.
None of that is controlled by the player other then the database object they chose to use. They are all simply plays on the information differences in the entire game database. The player needs the ability to control his weapon. To shoot. Think Warcraft on steroids. The application fire procedures is the success of this game. The database, AI, keeps it interesting and close to real life (the gaming environment). Success by your own actions is what keeps it fun. For me, Firing procedures is the key to that success. I am in your corner and believe that this is really on to something and the fact that you allow yourself to learn from the player community has me hooked. But to get a larger audience requires a bigger trigger for the player. My enjoyment is naval ship warfare. That is why I bought this game. Keep up the good work.
I have written only two scenarios and they were not complex air actions so these are my thoughts around the player firing the weapons. I realize that the command side of this can be different. Some players may have fun ordering a group of plains into action and let the AI handle weapon release and their fun Is in the decision making of type of plain, missions, load out, launch times, refueling, I get that as well. Like I said, you are onto something here. You brought me over to the Dark side. GO Command