Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

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Perturabo
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Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Perturabo »

So, I was wondering how much time it would be. For example for a regimental HQ giving an order to a company or battalion HQ giving an order to a platoon.
From the time when the unit commander wants to give an order to when the order will start getting executed (like in Armored Brigade).
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Twotribes »

Assuming radio contact the platoon would be a go in minutes, the Company made a little longer depending on what the company was doing and what the order was. In current times every platoon has a radio or two. So command loop is pretty fast. A company might require the time to relay the order to the platoons.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Perturabo »

So, about 3 minutes would probably be most reasonable with radio contact? For some reason Armored Brigade has 20-30 seconds but it sounds to me too short for even speaking the order, not to mention connecting to proper unit and that unit leader relaying the order to sub-units.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Twotribes »

Remember in the case of armor ever tank and apc has a radio and would hear the general command. The only thing they would need would be some clarification on unit movement.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Remember in the case of armor ever tank and apc has a radio and would hear the general command. The only thing they would need would be some clarification on unit movement.
I see. What value would you propose, then?
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Hertston »

If you come back on that TT, I'd also be curious to know that value has changed from the late Cold War period as well (assuming an absence of factors such as large scale EW employed by the opposing force).
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Max 86 »

Also, thinking about when Coy commanders are at the battalion HQ, receive an order, then they leave on foot or vehicle back to their coys, then they call in platoon leaders and NCOs for a face to face, go over the details and then march out.

It really is situational, where are the coy commanders? At the front line next to a radio or back at battalion HQ with the Col.?

I was thinking about Band of Brothers series and how many times they were at battalion HQ when orders were given. If they are in the middle of the sh!t then the delay is probably shorter, as long as they have radio contact. The orders would have to be simpler as no details could be discussed in the time allowed.

Now, think about division ordering a battalion to assault a village. That's not something you plan on the fly if possible. You call in the coy commanders, lay it out in detail, when does arty start and stop, what time each coy should be in position and the go time. This takes more explaining and the orders delay would be longer.

Just a thought.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Twotribes »

The use of encryption might mean outlying tanks APC did not hear the order but as I recall so long as the radio has the same encryption code and on the same net they get the message.

Most set piece battles are planned for long before the assault. Time permitting. And actually usually take place at a central location not on radios. On the fly commands would only take a few minutes as snap decisions would be made.

But if you are talking about a preplanned assault the commands would happen rather rapidly and only adjustments made at the platoon or Company level might take a couple minutes. No plan survives contact with the enemy but it creates a frame work for all further commands.

As for defense each local command has a designed defensive plan already in place and would react according to those plans again only taking moments to implement.

Battalion is not likely close enough to the front to adjust most plans in a fluid engagement and any orders they gave would be recommendations based on their perceived view of the overall battle, adjusting for what the different elements of the Battalion are accomplishing or not accomplishing. Such commands would only take moments to give but might require the local command a few minutes to implement. Depending on what they were.

3 to 5 minute time window would seem reasonable for CHANGES to the plan, while much less time would be required if operating on the preplan.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Twotribes »

Depending on EW and Counter EW times can change or rather local commands are left to their own devices. Once again the main battle plan will have been hashed out and done in a central location with key players present. Only adjustments to the plan would need happen on the net. And Battalions and Divisions usually give overall objectives with specific line of approach or target locations, the actual orders on how the Company is going to accomplish the assigned mission comes from the Company commander in a well functioning military. We have all seen movies where Colonels go on mission with Companies, that is a rare occurrence unless the Command is a micro manager and is a sign of distrust in the command ability of the Company commander unless a specific mission requires the command authority of Battalion at site. A Battalion Commander located with a Company is not in contact with his G and S shop commanders and is not able to properly command all his battalion assets normally. He does not have the advice of his staff and does not have the use of his larger more complex command system.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Perturabo »

In Armored Brigade player can add deactivated waypoints to units which can be instantly activated later which represent pre-planning.
Another way of giving orders is adding new waypoints which has a command delay.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Alchenar »

When you are talking about a game you need to remember that a lot of stuff gets abstracted (obviously), including the act of giving an order.

Does it mean, as in Command Ops, that the CO has jut conceived of the plan and sets his staff to work on drawing up detailed marching orders? Or does it mean that the game assumes all of that work has been done retrospectively and we're simply talking about the physical act of passing on an order?

Depending on what it is exactly you are talking about the answer is going to vary.
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RE: Realistic command delay in tactical scale?

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

When you are talking about a game you need to remember that a lot of stuff gets abstracted (obviously), including the act of giving an order.

Does it mean, as in Command Ops, that the CO has jut conceived of the plan and sets his staff to work on drawing up detailed marching orders? Or does it mean that the game assumes all of that work has been done retrospectively and we're simply talking about the physical act of passing on an order?

Depending on what it is exactly you are talking about the answer is going to vary.
Command Ops has separate delay for initial orders and later orders to simulate pre-planning. For example it takes a battalion several minutes to start executing an order during the initial minutes of the game while an hour later it takes 40 minutes.
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