Soviet artillery divisions

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caliJP
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Soviet artillery divisions

Post by caliJP »

I haven't experimented much with Artillery Divisions yet on the soviet side, so I am curious what others do. I am playing a human game as soviet and we are in Sep 1942. I have stopped the nazi offensive early in summer 42, and right now we are mostly in a trench warfare mode until I can convert my whole army to Rifle Corps, as without those it's difficult to push the germans! I am wondering whether and how many artillery divisions to build for my 1943 offensive? And also what types? (regular, breakthrough, heavy,...) I am assuming they need to be attached to armies (as opposed to fronts) for better effectiveness?

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M60A3TTS
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by M60A3TTS »

I created separate armies that contains 8 artillery/breakthrough artillery divisions with 1 rocket division and 6 artillery supporting regiments. These "artillery armies" remain under STAVKA control. Three or four of these armies are sufficient. They normally support one front each during major offensives.
charlie0311
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by charlie0311 »


M60,

I'm wondering how one uses such arty armies as they seem to be out of the chain of command of the fronts they are supporting?

charlie
caliJP
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by caliJP »

M60, do you then blast the front line first with artillery only and attack second, or do you combine artillery divs with the front line attack?
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M60A3TTS
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by M60A3TTS »

You will take a hit on the CV of the artillery units not being part of the army in command of the battle. However the # of guns being applied in the attack still have a significant impact.

"Quantity has a quality of its own"

-Stalin

I do not blast the line first, they always fire in support of the main attacking divisions or corps.


Here was an earlier game where the army was attached to a front. I would not do that now though as it doesn't add anything to the results AFAIK.
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caliJP
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by caliJP »

M60 thanx, quite helpful.
I do the same with my tank armies, they stay under STAVKA so I can move them around easily without spending AP.
That seems to work well
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charlie0311
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by charlie0311 »

thx also from me,

in the case with out of the command chain arty armies, does one conduct the attack as any other deliberate attack.

i'm very rookie, compared to you, so another question or two.
1. all those different airbase names (soviet), doesn't any of it really matter?
2. what does AFAIK mean?

thx

charlie
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loki100
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

thx also from me,

in the case with out of the command chain arty armies, does one conduct the attack as any other deliberate attack.

i'm very rookie, compared to you, so another question or two.
1. all those different airbase names (soviet), doesn't any of it really matter?
2. what does AFAIK mean?

thx

charlie

1 - some do. Most such as IAD, ShAD are unimportant in game terms. 3 do matter:

SAD will be removed Feb-March 1942 (at random), there is a good case to spend APs on their early disbanding. This will free up manpower etc in the summer of 1941 when you need it and you don't really need the capacity at that stage. It also speeds up the process of gaining replacement bases (if you have on average 6+ air units per base, you get more allocated);
VVS can be used for anything but are the bases that are first checked for partisan supply missions. So you may as well use them for that role
PVO only fighters will operate from these (they are part of the city defense portion of the Soviet air oob, along with flak etc)

2 - as far as I know ...

carlkay58
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by carlkay58 »

Note that the PVO will only fly interception missions with the assigned fighters. I usually disband both the SAD and PVO airbases in the first few turns for the manpower boost.
charlie0311
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by charlie0311 »

thx guys, most helpful.

charlie
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bigbaba
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by bigbaba »

nice arty concentration on that screenshot.

reading a glantz book about eastern front atm i will try to use combined arms armies (infantry with tons of different support troops like engineers, anti-tank and artillerie regiments and also SPG regiments) in combination with stavka commanded tank armies, independent tank and mechanized corps and artillerie armies. i guess its the best to let the mobile and artillerie units under stavka command to use the few russian AP otherwiese (building rifle corps from 43 on).

too bad the game isnt supporting the red army concept of "deep operation" because of the too smart axis players and their integrated deep defense lines.
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GamesaurusRex
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by GamesaurusRex »

Oh, I get it... This must be the thread where all of those who started drinking heavily in the a.m. come to make random remarks about random topics ?

I mean the thread started out talking about use of artillery and then people wandered in and started talking about airbases and combined arms ??

My only contribution is "Huh ?".

P.S @Cali, M60, and charlie... (who are the sober ones in the thread) I have my doubts about the artillery divs too... I added them to armies and used them in support in the second line behind the front line attacking troops, hoping they would get called in as reserve support... but with little success or effect. So I too am puzzled by their correct use.
"Real Life" is a game... THIS is war !
jwolf
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by jwolf »

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
I added them to armies and used them in support in the second line behind the front line attacking troops, hoping they would get called in as reserve support... but with little success or effect. So I too am puzzled by their correct use.

Why don't you just combine them with the frontline troops in a deliberate attack? You can add an arty division from 1 hex behind your main attacking troops.
Schmart
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by Schmart »

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
I have my doubts about the artillery divs too... I added them to armies and used them in support in the second line behind the front line attacking troops, hoping they would get called in as reserve support... but with little success or effect. So I too am puzzled by their correct use.

I add 1 or 2 Art Divs each to certain Armies (particularly Shock or Guards Armies) that I want to reinforce to attack strongly defended positions. The rest get divided up amongst Front HQs to move around and support attacks as needed.

Rex: They can be used in a reserve role, but are much less effective. Select the Art Divs like adding additional units to a deliberate attack.
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by Schmart »

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
I added them to armies and used them in support in the second line behind the front line attacking troops, hoping they would get called in as reserve support... but with little success or effect. So I too am puzzled by their correct use.

Why don't you just combine them with the frontline troops in a deliberate attack? You can add an arty division from 1 hex behind your main attacking troops.

This is an option, but I always figure if they are in the front line they are subject to regular combat. One hex back and the enemy can't touch them and are less vulnerable to counter attack. Stacking them with the attack also means one less Rifle Corps to add to the attack. As one is usually using Art Divs to knock down a heavily defended hex, pile up the Rifle Corps in the front and Art Divs one hex back to gain maximum advantage.
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by jwolf »

Schmart:  that's what I meant, have the arty one hex behind the main troops on the front line, but added to the deliberate attack.  Sorry I was clumsy with the wording.
swkuh
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by swkuh »

Thanks Schmart, now as an Axis Gameboy I know where to bomb when the Soviets begin to mass. That is, if they've left me some Luftwaffe to use... (joke)

BTW means by the way and as far as I know AFAIK means as far as I know... but what does Huh stand for?
charlie0311
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by charlie0311 »

Huh? is the same as Duh? My real name.

charlie
Schmart
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by Schmart »

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Schmart:  that's what I meant, have the arty one hex behind the main troops on the front line, but added to the deliberate attack.  Sorry I was clumsy with the wording.


Oops! I re-read your post and you basically said the same thing. I guess I just read your first sentence.

You get credit for the explanation! [;)]
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bigbaba
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RE: Soviet artillery divisions

Post by bigbaba »

ORIGINAL: Schmart

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
I added them to armies and used them in support in the second line behind the front line attacking troops, hoping they would get called in as reserve support... but with little success or effect. So I too am puzzled by their correct use.

Why don't you just combine them with the frontline troops in a deliberate attack? You can add an arty division from 1 hex behind your main attacking troops.

This is an option, but I always figure if they are in the front line they are subject to regular combat. One hex back and the enemy can't touch them and are less vulnerable to counter attack. Stacking them with the attack also means one less Rifle Corps to add to the attack. As one is usually using Art Divs to knock down a heavily defended hex, pile up the Rifle Corps in the front and Art Divs one hex back to gain maximum advantage.


thats the point. 2 ART DIV at the front and you can not stack up 6 RC for the attack. one must have 6 RC at the front to guarantee succes. now add to that few ART DIV and imho no german fortification (beside of towns maybe) can hold the ground against such a force.

thats also exactly what the red army did between 43-45 to open a gap in german forts for the mobile forces. infantry lavishly supported by artillery and SPG units at a very narrow front.
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