Axis Allies strength
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Axis Allies strength
I'm at turn 82 of a game against the Soviet AI patch .11 when this patch came out a number of members commented about the end of Axis Allies combat abilities dropping
I thought it might just be a bit amusing humour on there part of changes in the patch.
However after careful watch of my Allies over the 1942 summer during my offensives and now in the winter months there CV's are woeful, looking back now during the summer very few had CV's of 3 maybe the 2 Hungarian Tank Divisions and the Romanian one and now its even worse, most units are in the 1 range.
I have read quite a bit of reference material on the Axis Allies during the War in the Eastern Front they were not great at the best of times but to be this dreadful statistic wise in game terms makes them unusable except for stacking with German units or garrison duties.
As the Axis Player from 1942 onwards you have 4 entire useless Armies in the south this cant be right.
Is there any way of getting there CV's up and making them usable.
I thought it might just be a bit amusing humour on there part of changes in the patch.
However after careful watch of my Allies over the 1942 summer during my offensives and now in the winter months there CV's are woeful, looking back now during the summer very few had CV's of 3 maybe the 2 Hungarian Tank Divisions and the Romanian one and now its even worse, most units are in the 1 range.
I have read quite a bit of reference material on the Axis Allies during the War in the Eastern Front they were not great at the best of times but to be this dreadful statistic wise in game terms makes them unusable except for stacking with German units or garrison duties.
As the Axis Player from 1942 onwards you have 4 entire useless Armies in the south this cant be right.
Is there any way of getting there CV's up and making them usable.
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RE: Axis Allies strength
42 morale and at least 94 % of TOE would give you the desired CV's of 3
- heliodorus04
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RE: Axis Allies strength
Due to their awful leadership, there is little realistic chance of them getting a morale increase. Any decrease is almost always permanent. Given that morale is the primary combat statistic, the results are predictable.
You can try putting Romanian units with medium morale (44+) into German HQs with high morale and see what happens, but I've never been impressed.
Any Romanian unit that drops below 40 morale is permanent garrison in my games, and set to 50% TOE. I park excess Romanian HQs in Romania (and disband a few, plus a few airbases). Give the Romanians that are there more support squads. Disband machine gun SUs.
They can also be very useful as stopgap ZOC protectors for HQs, key railroads, or such.
Note that all of their air forces can be streamlined and optimized well using Admin, it doesn't need to support its own nationality, and they perform reliably.
The only use for Romanian cavalry is partisan hunting, at which they excel (again, 50% TOE).
You can try putting Romanian units with medium morale (44+) into German HQs with high morale and see what happens, but I've never been impressed.
Any Romanian unit that drops below 40 morale is permanent garrison in my games, and set to 50% TOE. I park excess Romanian HQs in Romania (and disband a few, plus a few airbases). Give the Romanians that are there more support squads. Disband machine gun SUs.
They can also be very useful as stopgap ZOC protectors for HQs, key railroads, or such.
Note that all of their air forces can be streamlined and optimized well using Admin, it doesn't need to support its own nationality, and they perform reliably.
The only use for Romanian cavalry is partisan hunting, at which they excel (again, 50% TOE).
Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
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Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders
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RE: Axis Allies strength
It's sad, but even the Rumanian 1st Armored Division (while behind friendly lines, on refit, frozen and unable to move) drops 25% in CV (4 -> 3) from Turn 1 to Turn 2.
This always struck me as odd.
While I'm aware that the Rumanian forces were not up to par with their German counterparts, I am somewhat skeptical that they are as abysmal as the current game system portrays them.
I also do not know why the 1941-45 scenario starts with the 3rd and 4th Rumanian Armies subordinate to AG South, when they should be subordinate to Armeegruppe Antonescu.
This in itself requires the GHC to spend 100+ APs to re-attach the bulk of the Rumanian forces to the appropriate commands and relieve some of the command burden from AG South.
This always struck me as odd.
While I'm aware that the Rumanian forces were not up to par with their German counterparts, I am somewhat skeptical that they are as abysmal as the current game system portrays them.
I also do not know why the 1941-45 scenario starts with the 3rd and 4th Rumanian Armies subordinate to AG South, when they should be subordinate to Armeegruppe Antonescu.
This in itself requires the GHC to spend 100+ APs to re-attach the bulk of the Rumanian forces to the appropriate commands and relieve some of the command burden from AG South.
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RE: Axis Allies strength
The romanian armored division returns the excess tanks to the pool in the first logistics phase .
they would be usefull ,when you pull the division back to rebuild after 1941 summer drive, because all tanks need to be imported .
Becuse in practice, romanian armies were subordinated to the german 11th army , the subordination was tight wrt to the 3rd , and a bit more lose wrt to the 4th .
they would be usefull ,when you pull the division back to rebuild after 1941 summer drive, because all tanks need to be imported .
Becuse in practice, romanian armies were subordinated to the german 11th army , the subordination was tight wrt to the 3rd , and a bit more lose wrt to the 4th .
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RE: Axis Allies strength
ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.
Becuse in practice, romanian armies were subordinated to the german 11th army , the subordination was tight wrt to the 3rd , and a bit more lose wrt to the 4th .
I tend to disagree, as there are simply too many historical references that subordinate the 3rd and 4th Romanian Armies to Army Group Antonescu at the onset of Barbarossa. While I concede that they may have been later subordinated to other commands, it is irrefutable that they were not under the direct control of AGS at the onset of the campaign. The GHC should not be saddled with a 100+ AP sinkhole to fill that simply did not exist on June 22, 1941.
http://operationbarbarossa.net/Fast-Fac ... facts.html
The Rumanian forces (Army Group Antonescu) on the Rumanian border launched their offensive against the Soviet’s Southern Front, supported by the German 11th Army (Schobert, with seven German divisions). Although the German 11th Army was technically subordinate to Army Group Antonescu, in reality it received (and acted on) direction from von Rundstedt in Army Group South.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/operatii/?article=6
After retaking Northern Bukovina, the Romanian 3rd Army was subordinated to the German 11th Army. It was made up of the Cavalry Corps (5th, 6th and 8th Cavalry Brigades, the Romanian semi-motorized cavalry units), the Mountain Corps (1st, 2nd and 4th Mountain Brigades), a field artillery regiment (of the 7th Infantry Division), the 52nd and 57th Motorized Heavy Artillery Battalions and the 54th AT Company. Also, the 19th and 21st Observation Squadrons and 111th Liason Squadron were assigned to it. There were in total 74,700 men, under the command of. lt. gen. Petre Dumitrescu.
After this operation, the 3rd Army returned under the direct command of the Romanian General Headquarters and remained in defensive positions on the seaside (to prevent a Soviet landings behind German lines).
Even the need for Hitler to send a letter to Antonescu illustrates that the Romanian forces were not directly under AG South's command and control at the onset of Barbarossa.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/operatii/?article=7
On 27 July 1941, Hitler sent a letter to general Antonescu (he was promoted marshal a month later), in which he asked for the further cooperation of the Romanian troops beyond the Dniester River and the Romanian administration of the territory between the Dniester and the Bug rivers. Antonescu accepted on 31 July. In fact the 3rd Army had already crossed the river on 17 July.
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RE: Axis Allies strength
ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.
The romanian armored division returns the excess tanks to the pool in the first logistics phase .
Yes, this appears to be the case. Hardly makes much sense that they were already deployed as a part of the unit and then Romanian HC suddenly became aware of the overages and demanded the return of the excess tanks to the equipment pools at the very onset of offensive operations.[&:]
Hmm... something doesn't make sense here....
I suspect there is an issue with the game's TO&E for the 1st Romanian Armored Division. According to the following reference, the division should allow for 201 tanks.
http://philonworldwartwo.blogspot.com/2 ... ision.html
However, the WiTE 41 Rum. Armored Division TOE only allows for 106 tanks.
It starts the 1941 scenario with 204 tanks. There is no reason for any of the tanks to be sent back to the force pools.
RE: Axis Allies strength
Thanks for the tipsORIGINAL: Gabriel B.
42 morale and at least 94 % of TOE would give you the desired CV's of 3
I'm going to give this a try it cant get any worse luckily I control The Caucasus so The Rumanians are there holidaying and I'm playing against the AI ( no disrespect to the AI it can be brutal when it wants to be ) the Italians and Hungarians are reinforcing each other on a fortified line in front of Stalingrad.
Having played HOI Doomsday as these very countries and performed well it seems a pity in WITE they are so weak.
RE: Axis Allies strength
ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
Due to their awful leadership, there is little realistic chance of them getting a morale increase. Any decrease is almost always permanent. Given that morale is the primary combat statistic, the results are predictable.
You can try putting Romanian units with medium morale (44+) into German HQs with high morale and see what happens, but I've never been impressed.
Any Romanian unit that drops below 40 morale is permanent garrison in my games, and set to 50% TOE. I park excess Romanian HQs in Romania (and disband a few, plus a few airbases). Give the Romanians that are there more support squads. Disband machine gun SUs.
They can also be very useful as stopgap ZOC protectors for HQs, key railroads, or such.
Note that all of their air forces can be streamlined and optimized well using Admin, it doesn't need to support its own nationality, and they perform reliably.
The only use for Romanian cavalry is partisan hunting, at which they excel (again, 50% TOE).
Some more interesting info which I will put to good use thanks, having checked my morale of the majority of my Rum units very few are above 40 most are sitting between 35-39, as I mentioned in my above post they are sunning down on the Black Sea coast and for now out of harms way with not much chance of the Reds getting there till late 43 or early 44.
I'm not a fan of disbanding units not even the German security HQ's but switching Allied combat units to German HQ's sounds good perhaps at the start of a campaign before everything starts to go down hill.
This sounds like the plan for my next game.
Funny I read reference material once about how during the Soviet winter offensive of 42 that encircled 6th Armee that either the Italians or Rumanians stood there ground it was not until they were up against odds of 8 to 1 that they finally folded but it does not work like that in this game.
RE: Axis Allies strength
ORIGINAL: DorianGray
ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.
The romanian armored division returns the excess tanks to the pool in the first logistics phase .
Yes, this appears to be the case. Hardly makes much sense that they were already deployed as a part of the unit and then Romanian HC suddenly became aware of the overages and demanded the return of the excess tanks to the equipment pools at the very onset of offensive operations.[&:]
Hmm... something doesn't make sense here....
I suspect there is an issue with the game's TO&E for the 1st Romanian Armored Division. According to the following reference, the division should allow for 201 tanks.
http://philonworldwartwo.blogspot.com/2 ... ision.html
However, the WiTE 41 Rum. Armored Division TOE only allows for 106 tanks.
It starts the 1941 scenario with 204 tanks. There is no reason for any of the tanks to be sent back to the force pools.
Yours and Gabriel b. info on the 1st Rum Armoured Div is a complete surprise to me as I have never really checked in detail its tank compliment that's very strange indeed, I agree there is something wrong in TO&E.
If it was going in for a refit I can understand but on combat duty when your invading a country you need maximum firepower.
the only that comes to mind is there is some kind of swapping out bug that is being looked at for a future patch but I think that is for late war TO&E's so I believe I could be wrong
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RE: Axis Allies strength
The regiment equipt with french tanks operated separate from the division main body, during the push to the Dnestr.