Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11---Saper welcome

[gingerbread]

If your computer can handle it, it could be interesting to run two '44 trials in parallel. Interesting from a multiplier aspect, that is.

One with 1.07.13 and one older, say 1.07.08 or so.

[Wheat]

ORIGINAL: mktours

I share this AAR from good will, now I am feeling a bit disappointing that it becomes a battle field for different opinions which I don't have the time and energy to attend to.
I am wondering what is the purpose of AAR? It seems it could not be as simple as someone sharing his game experience?

mktours, you don't have to attend to all the viewpoints. Play and share your game. We enjoy the action between two excellent players. It's ok if it stimulates some conversations.

[Tom Hunter]

mktours, please keep posting the game, its very interesting to see how other play, what works and what does not. If you would prefer not to have side conversations I am happy to stop posting them myself, hopefully others would also.

Personally I like a good discussion about the game so I encourage them on my AAR, your view may be different.

[Michael T]

mktours, there is a major issue with the game at the moment so lots of different opinions and debates will occur all over the place. I will refrain from derailing your AAR. Enjoy your game.

[Flaviusx]

For those who are curious: after running the Soviet AI for 1 turn on the 44 GC I obtained a total of 7 deliberate attacks in excess of 3x initial CV out of a total of 23 attacks. The Sovs got 11 hasty attacks over 3x initial CV out of at total of 23 hasty attacks. Of 46 total attacks there was only 1 hold.

There were a handful of cases where the final CV was inflated by 5x (!) or more.

STAVKA starts off this GC under the direction of Zhukov. (Vasilevsky gets no respect, lol.)

This wasn't even a very good opening turn by the AI as it failed to pocket anything. I know I could do much better than this.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I think you simply need to understand English a little better.

Comments like this need to go from this forum. They are clearly designed to embarrass and enrage the other person. Being a good player of WitE and having a strong opinion does not entitle you to this kind of behavior. I get very upset when people make fun of other peoples command of the English language. If someone takes the effort to speak another language you should not make fun of it.

Lets have a civil discussion in this forum.

[Michael T]

Give it a miss Bozo, the guy made a crack at my math, so an eye for an eye. Go cry on mummies shoulder if you can't handle the fire in the kitchen.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Give it a miss Bozo, the guy made a crack at my math, so an eye for an eye. Go cry on mummies shoulder if you can't handle the fire in the kitchen.

I kinda like Bozo way of being a board warrior.

He trys to kill you with political correctness.

Your just a mean, mean man MT.

[mktours]

@Wheat@Tom@Michael
Thank you for your kind words. I have no ill feeling of the comments; I am just a bit too busy to attend to the AAR at this moment.
I hope I could have more time later to resume the AAR.

[jmarzian]

This was looking to be an excellent match. I am deciding wether to buy the game and was very interested watching two people just go at it with no complaints. mktours you are a class individual and was enjoying reading your AAR and have to agree with your assessment of the great distraction of the side conversations.

[mktours]

@jmarzian,
Thank you for your kind words!
The game between Saper and me is still ongoing, we are in T45 now. I am busy with my work and family and just playing the game has used up all the time budget my wife allow to me and I have no time left to attend to the AAR, so I might not continue it.
WITE is the best game I have ever played, I think it offer wonderful historical experience if you play it in the right way, for example, in this game between Saper and me, we fight forward.
I think that if you don't have a lot of time, you might better consider just buying the main game and ignoring the two expansions. I have the two expansions, but don't have time to play a single minute of them. This game is extremely time consuming and you would find out this by yourself. But the experience is very rewarding! It is well deserve the time.

ORIGINAL: jmarzian

This was looking to be an excellent match. I am deciding wether to buy the game and was very interested watching two people just go at it with no complaints. mktours you are a class individual and was enjoying reading your AAR and have to agree with your assessment of the great distraction of the side conversations.

[mktours]

Here is brief summary until the end of T44:
In 1941 summer, The Red Army Fought forward and suffered very heavy loss. In this game we played the old Blizzard and it turned out way too strong and is impossible for Germany troops to defend, Saper lose many good troops in the Blizzard and Finland surrendered. It is not his fault, it is simply impossible for Germany to fight in the old Blizzard rules. So we are playing a game hugely in favor of my side.
Despite the heavy loss in the Blizzard, Saper made a strong come back in spring( he rested almost all his Panzer divisions in the winter): conquered Crimea and pocketed many soviet cavalry troops in the Kursk area. I massed 10 armies to rescue the pocketed troops and we have very intense fighting, but he still managed to seal the pocket in Mud turns.
So Germany is still too strong and it has the initiative.
The loss until the end of T44.

[mktours]

OOB in T44
Despite heavy loss in the old Blizzard, The Germany troops is still very strong and it recovered from the loss very quickly.

[mktours]

A lesson I learned from Saper:
In T44, He attacked in Mud and knocked off a good division in level 3 fort (9 defensive CV in Mud!)and pocketed 2 good divisions.
I think I learned many lessons from Saper in this game. Often I think this hex is strong enough and I would be safe, only to discover the next turn that it has been knocked off and an entire army being pocketed. In this game, if I made mistakes, I got severely punished, that is a privilege for playing against a good player.
It is a good thing, as losing 20 divisions didn't cost me a penny in real life, it just helps me to improve, if I didn't play with Saper, I would never know my weak points.

[jmarzian]

TYVM for your reponse, and more of this AAR. I hve donwloaded the game and worked thorugh 3/5ths of dlasov66 tutorial whcih is veryhelpful learning the richness of the game. Hoping ot play someone in a month or so after learning more.

[randallw]

That battle had some good dice rolls for the Axis side: Axis combat value went up over 3x original value, while the Soviet side ended up with less than half original.

[mktours]

Randallw,
Thank you for your comment.
I think that the display CV is often misleading, it is not just dice rolls, as in the battle, there could be many guns got hit and knocked out.
You are right that dice rolls also affect battles, surely.

ORIGINAL: randallw

That battle had some good dice rolls for the Axis side: Axis combat value went up over 3x original value, while the Soviet side ended up with less than half original.

[mktours]

ORIGINAL: mktours

@Tom,
This is the situation before the attack, when you get 19 attack CV against 35 defensive CV on a clear hex, it is likely to win.

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Given the discussions on other AARs it would be very interesting to see a battles result at the end of your turn, with some comments about counter attacks and your use of the Red Airforce.

Now that the game has long been over, and the new patch has made the leader no longer secret to opponent, I could afford to tell that the leader leading this attack is Zhukov backed up by a 7 infantry rating Front leader.
It is a 90% successful attack, yet, it is a 1:1=2:1 attack, so one could see that if the 1:1=2:1 rule removed, then the soviet best troops (two 4CV plus four 3CV strong rifle divisions sitting in level 2 forts backed up by numerous best SU under the command of Zhukov) would not be able to deal with 3 highly fatigue German divisions which just put themselves into open ground under their gunfire.
That is no fun, and obvious against history, if Germany could make this kind of putting troops into open ground under the nose of Soviet best troops, without getting any punishment, then they will win before 1941 winter. In history, we learn that Zhukov saved Leningrad by his famous counter-attack in 1941.
My opinion is that 1:1=2:1 need to remain, we could tone down the transport level, which could move the industry in a mega-city in one week, which is ridiculous. In dealing with capacity, one should not just count how many trains one have, it is the packing & loading & un-loading that matters, I think that the transport level needs to be cut by 50%.

[mktours]

The attack redo in new patch.

[Saper2229]

Hi mktours!
This was my first game with 1:1=2:1 rules and I move Germany troops not wait successful counter-attack.
I win other 3 games with this rules (mild blizzard of course!!!)
I think, that altCV mode more correct, I play with mode one game (daretty) and Soviets cannot win in 1941 if you start cv low, than Germany.
In last version I not like see, that many elements not fire in battle (set message level to 6 and see reports).