How to manually assign supply base?

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Nox0s
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How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Nox0s »

Is there a way to change where a unit draws supply from? I've got this one battalion still drawing from top HQ on the map for some reason.
jimcarravall
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by jimcarravall »

ORIGINAL: NoxNoctum

Is there a way to change where a unit draws supply from? I've got this one battalion still drawing from top HQ on the map for some reason.

I believe if you issue separate orders to a battalion, it becomes attached to the Top HQ on the map, and may end up drawing supply from that HQ's base.

If ordered to act under the control of the top HQ, reattaching the unit would make its original supplying base responsible for its sustenance.

But, whether that's better or not depends on where the battalion is located in relation to its original commanding HQ / base combo versus where it is in relation to the top HQ base.
Take care,

jim
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dazkaz15
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by dazkaz15 »

There is no way to force it to change in game that I know of unfortunately.

You can however change it in the scenario maker, before you start a new scenario.
Just drag it into the organic formation of the base you want it to be supplied from.
Phoenix100
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Phoenix100 »

Is that really so, Jim - that issuing orders which detach units, attaches the units to the on-map boss (and its base)for supply purposes? I wasn't aware of that happening at all (though obviously I can see that they become part of the boss's command load). You sure? Because that would mean that if - as I usually do - I command mainly at Bn level then all those battalions (almost the entire force, usually) skip their regimental bases and draw from the boss? You sure? Can you confirm this, Dave? Cheers.
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Arjuna
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Arjuna »

Forces are allocated to Bases first using the organic command chain. They get their direct organic base - eg for an inf coy this will be the base for its Regt/Bde. If this is reachable and within reasonable range then this will do. If not it goes up the organic chain of command. If none meet the criteria of being reachable and within reasonable range then it will start up the current command chain. If still no luck they will try the onMapBoss's base. It's a bit more complicated than that but that's good enough for now.
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Phoenix100
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Phoenix100 »

Thanks Dave. So, Noxnoctum, I would guess the Bn is more likely to be drawing from the OMB due to reasons of proximity/practicality, rather than merely because you were giving it direct orders. Does that seem possible?
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Deathtreader
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Deathtreader »

Hi all,

I'm sure Dave is tired of me beating this particular drum by now BUT I can't resist the opportunity to flog it again [:D]

I really think that players should be allowed to manually reassign units/formations to non-organic supply bases. I understand the logic behind not wanting tanks mixed with infantry bases or vice versa etc. but surely a tank unit reassigned to an infantry base could draw basics, possibly fuel (if the base had any) and compatible small arms ammo? I agree that in this case it wouldn't/shouldn't be able to obtain main gun ammo etc. Same principle for an infantry unit reassigned to an armoured base -- it only draws what the base can supply in terms unit specific requirements basics, fuel and compatible small arms ammo.
It is very hard to simulate encirclements/sieges where some of the surrounded units are drawing basics (for example)because their organic base happens trapped in the same town with them while the guys in the trenches right next to them are starving and dying of thirst because their base is on the other side of the siege lines. It would also stop the base outside of the encirclement from losing all of it's transports as supply columns valiantly try to break through the siege to in doomed resupply runs.

What do you all think? Dave? For CommandOPS 2 ??

Rob.[:)]
So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
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Arjuna
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Arjuna »

First off, bases represent more than just supply conduits they also represent significant service and support organisations. In WW2 a tank was high tech and required a lot of servicing and support facilities, equipment and trained technicians. These were just not present in the base supporting an infantry Bde for instance. In normal operations armoured units drew from their organic base regardless of who they were under command. The exceptions to this were when the distances were too large or the terrain prohibited.
 
Second point. There is a case for an armoured unit to draw from a base other than its organic one if the circumstances require. We already cater for that to a degree but only as a last result. I am not averse to providing user with options but to do this realistically we should model vehicle breakdown and repair. Then if you reassign it to a non suitable base the vehicles would soon breakdown and that would be the end of your armoured unit. So when we get to simulate this aspect we can add in this user option.
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jimcarravall
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by jimcarravall »

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Is that really so, Jim - that issuing orders which detach units, attaches the units to the on-map boss (and its base)for supply purposes? I wasn't aware of that happening at all (though obviously I can see that they become part of the boss's command load). You sure? Because that would mean that if - as I usually do - I command mainly at Bn level then all those battalions (almost the entire force, usually) skip their regimental bases and draw from the boss? You sure? Can you confirm this, Dave? Cheers.

The qualifier was "may end up drawing supply from that HQ's base."

The first issue was why a unit may draw supplies from an on map boss base.

Most likely reason is because the organic structure (and thus the structure's supply distribution parameters) was altered below the supply chain base level (e.g. direct orders issued at below a regimental level).

Second issue was how to return it to organic supply.

Most likely means is to return the unit to the organic structure where it will move into its commanding HQ's supply base distribution range.

Overall, one has to understand that CO contains an abstraction of real life operational supply distribution systems since it aggregates all supply operations at the regiment and above echelons and uses analogies to mimic the organizational level (in US Army parlance that below regiment) supply operations during game play.

Keeps the number of "supply base" icons at a reasonably representative minimum, but then leads to issues with supply priority, allocation, and routing that cause anomalies in game play at lower echelons.

Take care,

jim
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dazkaz15
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by dazkaz15 »

Something else regarding supply that I think should be looked into for Command Ops 2 is the separating out of HE, AP, small arms ammunition, basics and fuel supply.

At the moment supply is represented in tonnage at the base, then converted to the required type of resource once it is requested by the drawing unit.
This abstraction is obviously to reduce the processing power needed for the supply side of the game.

Unfortunately it presents problems when a powerful unit, often an armoured Bn, and often meant to play a critical role in your plan, is a Corps asset, and drawing straight from the On Map Boss Base (usually Corps level).
This is because the On Map Boss Base has already distributed all of its supply to the Regimental Bases, and or the artillery units, and completely ran out, thus leaving nothing for the newly arriving armour to draw from.
This often leaves the armour and the artillery with no resupply of the crucial Anti Armour ammunition.

I know that there is rationing in force once the supply gets low for the bases but it doesn't seem to prevent the bases using it all to supply the artillery with HE, thus leaving no AP to deal with enemy armour once it is encountered.

Also I don't like the way that a newly arriving unit is not allocated a supply base until after the routine supply runs, which for Axis is usually only once a day.
If the new unit arrives just after the resupply event, it means it has to go 24 hours without supply.
This is very gamey as in reality its base would just be off the map behind it or already on map somewhere, and should be able to request emergency resupply from it right away if needed.

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dazkaz15
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by dazkaz15 »

I know a lot of the issues we have raised on this forum over the last few years has been supply related.
This should be a hint as to one of the things that makes Command Ops unique, from any run of the mill RTS game.

Supply is a crucial part of war, often thought of as boring, and unimportant, or to hard to implement by most game creators.
In the short scenarios it is not really an issue, as the on hand supply that most units have is almost enough to see the battle through.
In longer scenarios though it can make or break an offensive.

I personally would like to see a lot less abstraction of supply, more options to stay in supply, with user defined routes, and escorted supply convoys.
Maybe this will have to wait for Command Ops 3?
Fred Sanford
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RE: How to manually assign supply base?

Post by Fred Sanford »

How about giving nearby units under the same operational command the ability to equalize supply amongst like units when you hit the 'reorg' button (which I don't think I've used in all the years I've played CO). If you have units in a pocket, you select them all, and press reorg- all of the selected units will equalize their basics and fuel, and units with common ammo types will equalize, all on a pro-rata basis. The cohesions of the units will be reduced some to represent the to-and-fro of supply and personnel.
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