Question for any of the AE Team

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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mike scholl 1
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Question for any of the AE Team

Post by mike scholl 1 »

Would it be possible to do a mod where abuse of the "magic move" (such as to invade Mersing or Sumatra or any location South of the Malaya/Siam border) result in an immediate intercept and attack of the offending TF(s)?

Be real nice if it triggered the war a day early and lost "Surprise" all over the map..., but even if it just triggered a "special attack" before the Japanese turn began it would be much more historically accurate. Say just by the Brits (air and naval) if the target was Mersing, and with the Dutch tossed in if the target was farther South.

Something to make the folks who insist on abusing this feature think twice would be nice...
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dr.hal
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by dr.hal »

I've seen that abuse first hand and agree with you. However a house rule preventing that would accomplish the same thing as would a firm understanding prior to the launch of the game between you and your opponent on the philosophical approach that both of you have to the game would also counter this "move". Thus if communications between the two players are good and frank, then there should be no expectation of such a move.
mike scholl 1
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by mike scholl 1 »

I agree with you "Hal", and it's the only way I've ever played. But there are those on the forum who insist "it's only a game", and use the "special move" to drive a bulldozer through reality. I just wondered if there was a simple way to make them pay the price history would have inflicted on them.
spence
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by spence »

The absolute and certain knowledge of forces available, their locations, their inability to do anything, reinforcements, and replacements is behind the wheel of that bulldozer. Amazing that Force Z has to be at sea for the sole purpose of starting a torpedo collection and that a force of Japanese transports can sail right through the same hex (technically) enroute to Mersing without the slightest chance that the Admiral Philips's curiosity will even be aroused.
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dr.hal
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by dr.hal »

True Spence, but the best defense against this is the plays knowing the ground rules of the game. I think it would be difficult to factor in "no go" or "loose surprise" trigger areas in terms of computer code as there would be lots of variations of this. But I'm not a programer, so not sure. The developers may not see this as important/cost effective due to the fact that a simple "fix" exists through player agreement before the start.
Spidery
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by Spidery »

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

I agree with you "Hal", and it's the only way I've ever played. But there are those on the forum who insist "it's only a game", and use the "special move" to drive a bulldozer through reality. I just wondered if there was a simple way to make them pay the price history would have inflicted on them.

If a player has the attitude they, presumably, won't object to the Allied player doing anything allowed by the game on the first turn. For example, forming task forces and emptying Pearl Harbor and Manila of ships, maybe even sending SCTF out to likely spots that CVs might be located. After that turn the game can start over with an agreement[:'(].

I do think there is a difficulty in deciding what is possible. In an alternate reality where the Japanese did not strike at Pearl Harbor, I think we would be saying that a surprise strike there is totally unrealistic and should be disallowed.

The Japanese could be allowed one implausible action (a strike at Pearl Harbor, finding the Allied CVs, landing at Mersing, etc.)
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Feltan
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by Feltan »

To keep peace in the family, I offer three words: Historical first turn.

Regards,
Feltan
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catwhoorg
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by catwhoorg »

Or Dec 8th start maybe ?
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LoBaron
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by LoBaron »

Or simply an opponent with whom you are able to agree on certain basics. Otherwise it will be a short campaign anyway, Mersing or not.

[>:]
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dr.hal
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by dr.hal »

ORIGINAL: Feltan

To keep peace in the family, I offer three words: Historical first turn.

Regards,
Feltan
But Feltan, then you never get to play with the USS Arizona!!!!
MBF
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by MBF »

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Or simply an opponent with whom you are able to agree on certain basics. Otherwise it will be a short campaign anyway, Mersing or not.

[>:]

++1
spence
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by spence »

In a typical "Historical 1st Turn" the losses to the USN at Pearl harbor are likely to be considerably greater than "RL historical" and the airfield there is almost certainly disabled in so far as offensive counterstrike possibilities for the subsequent turn while the losses to the IJN flyers are most likely considerably less than historical. It is my experience that in both vs AI and PBEM results like the actual historical outcome are an outlier on the low side of the bell curve of possible results.

In addition as previously mentioned the loss of Force Z is almost a given (virtually certain it will be eliminated as an effective counter-force for the first few months of the game) Also it should be noted that the very same bombers that (usually) sink Force Z on turn one also get to damage the port of Singapore that same turn delaying the beginning of fortifications on that turn.

The mechanics of the game also guarantee that almost any counterstrike by Allied air on turn 1 in Malaya will waste the very improbable likelihood of a hit by its bombs (only) attacking those Japanese units least likely to sustain any damage (battleships).

If I am not mistaken the KB has adequate fuel to hang around the Hawaiian Islands for a couple of turns or go hunting USN CVs They are almost guaranteed that US submarines pose no threat and that US LBA poses no threat.

All of these factors were UNKNOWNS that made the RL Historical 1st Turn a real crap shoot for the IJ Player. IRL they got a 7.

I am not a programmer but it seems that the same seed number that generates the combat outcomes on turn one could be used to place US/Allied CVTFs and submarines, and some LBA in different hexes at the start of the game. It could also be used to create an increasingly probable activation of Allied units depending on distance from certain hexes (like Manila, Singapore, Palembang, Soerabaya, Ambon, US CVTFs (who maybe should get to sight the KB without getting sighted) and probably a couple more). Thus if the IJ Player wants to try something really hairy he gets to chew his fingernails down to the bone during the 1st turn resolution in something approximating a historical fashion.

Knowing that for the next few months he'll be running around with bandages on all his fingers would be considerably more satisfying than just grinning and bearing it through 180-540 turns of IJ Player fantasies.

mike scholl 1
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by mike scholl 1 »

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Or simply an opponent with whom you are able to agree on certain basics. Otherwise it will be a short campaign anyway, Mersing or not.

As I said, I never play with any of the "it's only a game" players. I mentioned it ONLY to see if any of the programmers had given any thought to controlling the "magic move" abuses.
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LoBaron
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by LoBaron »

I see.

Obviously not. Otherwise it would be implemented, wouldn´t it?

(Except for historical 1st, and dec 8th that is)
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mike scholl 1
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by mike scholl 1 »

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

I see.

Obviously not. Otherwise it would be implemented, wouldn´t it?

YOU WOULD THINK SO..., BUT GIVEN ALL THE THINGS THEY WERE DEALING WITH AT THE TIME DID ANYONE THINK OF IT? THAT'S WHY I ASKED.
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Symon
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
YOU WOULD THINK SO..., BUT GIVEN ALL THE THINGS THEY WERE DEALING WITH AT THE TIME DID ANYONE THINK OF IT? THAT'S WHY I ASKED.
No. Didn't even think of it. It would require monster code rewites for a single turn that many players (Dec 8 start) wouldn use. That would have been at 14 or 15 on the 1 - 10 scale. Sorry. J
Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
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mike scholl 1
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by mike scholl 1 »

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
YOU WOULD THINK SO..., BUT GIVEN ALL THE THINGS THEY WERE DEALING WITH AT THE TIME DID ANYONE THINK OF IT? THAT'S WHY I ASKED.
No. Didn't even think of it. It would require monster code rewites for a single turn that many players (Dec 8 start) wouldn use. That would have been at 14 or 15 on the 1 - 10 scale. Sorry. J


FAIR ENOUGH. JUST WONDERED IF ANYTHING COULD HAVE BEEN DONE. THANKS!
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HansBolter
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Feltan

To keep peace in the family, I offer three words: Historical first turn.

Regards,
Feltan

or Non-Historical first turn is automatically coupled with No-Surprise.
Hans

czert2
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by czert2 »

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
YOU WOULD THINK SO..., BUT GIVEN ALL THE THINGS THEY WERE DEALING WITH AT THE TIME DID ANYONE THINK OF IT? THAT'S WHY I ASKED.
No. Didn't even think of it. It would require monster code rewites for a single turn that many players (Dec 8 start) wouldn use. That would have been at 14 or 15 on the 1 - 10 scale. Sorry. J


FAIR ENOUGH. JUST WONDERED IF ANYTHING COULD HAVE BEEN DONE. THANKS!
Buy new kb (keyboard not kudo butai :) )- you have stuck caps lock.
Big B
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RE: Question for any of the AE Team

Post by Big B »

If you would like to try absolute uncertainty for both sides - for a non-historical start - check out scenario "400 Days"
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