GD1938 mod

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Twotribes
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GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

I believe after playing this for a while that Japan's starting supply sources are to limited. Japan successfully waged war in China from 38 to the end of the war. And she built up her capabilities at sea and had enough oil and supplies in 1941 for 6 months of war before capturing the Southern resource sites.

Yet in game with in 3 turns Japan is short of supplies and with in 6 even after building a new Chem factor she is short of supplies critically short. If Japan builds any more troops that she desperately needs to fight China she is cutting her supply problems even more.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ironduke1955 »

I am playing Japan in GD1938 4 what works is if you take some of the HQ's on the Japanese mainland and remove them from the chain of command so they don't receive supply. you don't need to have a fully supplied navy as Japan does not have the fuel to put them to sea anyway. The Japanese supply situation was pretty dire one of the reasons for their attack on the USA was the oil embargo imposed by the USA.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

I am playing Japan in GD1938 4 what works is if you take some of the HQ's on the Japanese mainland and remove them from the chain of command so they don't receive supply. you don't need to have a fully supplied navy as Japan does not have the fuel to put them to sea anyway. The Japanese supply situation was pretty dire one of the reasons for their attack on the USA was the oil embargo imposed by the USA.

Not in 1938.1939 . or 1940.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ernieschwitz »

Original: http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/stra/w2j-oil.html

Japan was a densly populated, resource poor country. The most critical resource that Japan lacked was oil. Japan did have some limited sources of oil. Japan produced about 2.7 million barrels of oil domestically. The domestic wells were located at Akita, Niigata and Nutsu. This was about 0.1 percent of world production (1941). This was approximately comparable to a single day of American oil production. Expansion into Korea and Manchuria (Manchuko) managed to acquire many needed resources. Manchukuo fields provided another 1.0 million barrels. They obtained another 1.0 million tons from fields in Formosa (Taiwan). Japan also had a small synthetic petroleum industry.

So it is not unreasonable, at all, that Japan lacks oil, and supplies to start with. In fact:
And with an industrial economy and a large navy and merchant marine, Japan required large quantities of oil. The ongoing war in China also required large quantities of oil.

Also worth noting is it that Japan relied heavily on imported oil, mostly from America.
Japan was almost totally dependant on imported oil. Japan imported about 90 percent of its oil. To make matters worse for Japan, the United States was the major world producer of oil. America was also Japan's principal supplier--the same country the United States would have to fight if it was to seize an empire in the resource-rich South Pacific. Japan imported 1.0 million barrels from Soviet Sakhalin. Japan also imported oil from the DEI amd Mexico, but the United States was the primary source. Japan's major source of oil was the United States. Before the invasion of China, Japan had been purchasing 80 percent of its oil in the United States (1937). The United States through its moral persuasion policy had suceeded in convincing American ship owners to reduce shipments to Japan without any formal action. Thus on the brink of war the Japanese were only obtaining 60 percent of their oil in America (1941).

Of course I could program the game to be more realistic, but in fact, I think Japan gets more oil, atm, than it should, from own sources.

There are many mechanisms I could use to make this ...

I could make an event that gave Japan fuel and supplies.... and then make some provisions for instance....

From the top of my head, each time the US checks to see if it breaks isolationism, oil imports would fall 1%.

Or maybe give the US a card that allowed them to reduce oil exports to Japan, and let it fall 10% each time they used it for a 5% loss in breaking of isolationism.

Personally, I think it works well atm. Japan is NOT crippled, but just hampered. Each turn they have enough oil to do an offensive or two, while not being able to use its fleet at the same time as its airforce.

This hindrance is pretty essential when you look at the opponents they are fighting, and the victory conditions they have been given.

Also this lack of oil/supplies, really drives Japan to get the supply areas, or make some investments in them. I like that.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

Except the simple fact that in 38, 39 and 40 Japan had no major problems. In game the Japanese are hamstrung right off the bat. And it gets worse as you do not provide enough supplies the demand goes UP more then the ability to build resources.

Japan had no incentive in 38 to invade the Southern resource area, none in 39 or 40 either. BUT you force them to consider an attack in 38 and 39.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

Not until the winter of 40/41 did the US seriously curtail oil or material shipments.

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/W ... /japan.htm
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ernieschwitz »

I´m listening to what you are writing.

However all testruns so far have shown that Japan is very powerful compared to the neighbors it faces. I have had players who have conquered all of China except one city (Kunming), and thats not all, I have personally smashed the American fleet at Pearl Harbor, once when playing.

Chemical factories like the ones you are able to build are probably well beyond the Japanese capability too.

But Japan, as you could read in the above, had to import 90% of its oil to function. And they still made planes of paper and wood, to conserve materials.

If I had to make Japan only able to supply 10% of its own supplies, and rely on 90% of them from imports from the United states, which would be the obvious game mechanics, I bet someone would be screaming at me too...
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ernieschwitz »

One might ask the simple question:

What would you do, within the game mechanics, to change what you don´t like?

With the obvious tagline - without ruining the balance of the game.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

I would give Japan 2 more 2400 supply sites. Located in Manchuko and Korea. This would allow Japan to remain supplied until at least 1940. Or I would give Japan a Huge stock of supplies at start. The stock idea does not effect oil production as I think you allow supply to make oil?
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

Why do you assume I am screaming? I am noting what I believe is a problem and asking to see if it can be fixed. I have played this scenario a lot mostly against myself.

I was under the impression one was encouraged to note what they thought might be a problem state why and ask if it could or could not be fixed.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ernieschwitz »

Giving Japan permanent supply bases of the kind you are suggesting would seriously cause unbalance, I believe...

It would solve ALL their supply problems, even when the US and they are at war, and it would make SURE that there was no problem conducting naval and air operations at will.

Not exactly what I envisioned.

No, I think that the Import idea (from America) is much more feasible...
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ernieschwitz »

Yeah, maybe I was being harsh when i said scream. Sorry.

I don´t really think you are screaming. But I don´t consider this to be a major problem for Japan.

Sure it would be nice to have completely free range, as Japan, but think about what that would do for the chances for China to survive...

There has to be some sort of balance.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ernieschwitz »

Of course, one way of making China survive longer, would be the advent of some sort of Partisan activity. This could be in the form of free troops popping up in hexes that where part of conquered China... That would be extremely annoying I bet.

Another way of making China survive longer would be to make conscripts even cheaper.

But then I am really compensating for Japan being stronger...
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Jonathan Pollard »

The reason Japan was able to import the oil it needed prior to the embargo was because part of its industrial capacity was used to produce items for export (including even the US flag) to pay for the oil it was importing. I think the scenario simulates this rather well, but to improve the scenario I would recommend adding something that reflects the effect of the oil embargo. Perhaps this should also include some relatively minor negative effect on the US economy.

The "Know Your Enemy - Japan" documentary covers the Japanese economy starting around the 44 minute mark and can be seen on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBIfnPyK4rw
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ironduke1955 »

Japan did not historically manage to defeat China this should be considered. The reasons seem to be that the Chinese were a lot more effective than the Japanese at guerilla tactics. Japan could win the set piece battles but the Chinese would slip behind them into areas they had conquered, attacking supply columns rear area bases and raising the local populace to revolt hence the many Japanese atrocities. The more of China Japan conquered the worse the situation became. Casualty rates for the Japanese began to mount and unlike the Chinese manpower was a issue with Japan. So overall there should be difficulties for Japan compared to the historical difficulties a initial lack of supply is a minor problem. That can be overcome by diverting the Manchurian supply to the China HQ and the Japanese supply to the Shanghai HQ. Leaving the Imperial HQ with no supply source. Then a effort should be made to get to the nearest Chinese supply source once that is on line, the supply problem is solved.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ironduke1955 »

To add to the above post make sure that all of the Japanese HQ's on the Chinese Mainland draw there supply from the China HQ or the Shanghai HQ.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Jonathan Pollard »

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

Japan did not historically manage to defeat China this should be considered. The reasons seem to be that the Chinese were a lot more effective than the Japanese at guerilla tactics.
Don't forget the hundreds of aircraft and pilots that the USSR historically sent to help China. Hint...hint...[:D]
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

Japan did not historically manage to defeat China this should be considered. The reasons seem to be that the Chinese were a lot more effective than the Japanese at guerilla tactics.
Don't forget the hundreds of aircraft and pilots that the USSR historically sent to help China. Hint...hint...[:D]

Even if they change the game it won't effect the games in progress now Jonathan.... So no extra planes for you.... But you do get to make Soviet aircraft.
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by ironduke1955 »

I hear labour is pretty cheap in China, have a word with the Americans about building their new P51D's and B17's
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RE: GD1938 mod

Post by Twotribes »

If after becoming free and china is already at war with Japan the US can ally and ship stuff to China with out pesky interdiction if she does not declare war.
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