This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
In my current PBEM game, I still hold Rangoon, but the Japanese hold all of northern Burma. I have some armor regiments and a 4 Inf Bdes coming down from India (and a few divisions in Rangoon) to play with. His forces in northern Burma are, as best I can tell, armor and base forces exclusively. He has the imperial guards at Rangoon, but the bulk of his combat power is in Java. I would like to cut the northern and southern parts of Burma off from each other as the first objective. I am eye-balling the road junction south of Taungoo as the first objective to park some tanks on. Infantry is following, which will cut the road north of Prome. My questions are:
1) assuming the road junction south of Taungoo is occupied, can Japanese supplies flow between Pegu and Magwe? Note that I hold Rangoon, but he owns all 3 eastern hex sides - which include the rail entry and exit points.
2) He is getting about 50 supply / day out of Magwe (100 refinery points base, about half damaged for 50 refinery points = 50 supply and 450 gas I think). What does this buy him? It seems to me like this is a drop in the bucket for aircraft (about 50 fighters and 50 bombers in Magwe) and tanks
3) What is the quickest way to exhaust his supply (assuming I cut off northern Rangoon)? Is it bombing his units or airfields, forcing his fighters up with sweeps, or do I bite the bullet and direct assault?
I would say Japan has already lost the game at this point. If you still have troops/bases in Java and still have Rangoon at this point, things are pretty dire for Japan. So it really does not matter much what you do [:)]
The armor is a good choice since the IJA has little defense against them. So i would just first take unoccupied based and start air lifting in Inf and some AF support and using them to start contesting the skies. Maybe even a paradrop if you have one available and the TR capability would be good.
Looks to me like you're in for a surprise if you're thinking of starting your Burma offensive now. It's far too early.
You have no ability to control the IO and until you do, your opponent can simply wait until you move your free troops forward, then land behind them with everything you're looking at on Java. Your air and ground forces are weak compared to the Japanese at this point as well, and if your opponent treats this as a serious threat you'll be in trouble.
Have a look at Cribtop/Cuttlefish for a recent example where the Allies were encircled in the Burma plains and an army destroyed.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
1) assuming the road junction south of Taungoo is occupied, can Japanese supplies flow between Pegu and Magwe? Note that I hold Rangoon, but he owns all 3 eastern hex sides - which include the rail entry and exit points.
Yes, the route NW from Pegu and then along the road is < 50 points so will flow twice a week. The route NE/E/NE then on the road is < 100 supply cost so will flow once a week. It may also flow through Rangoon but I am not clear whether this is the case or not.
Note that from Chiang Mai to Magwe looks like 50 supply cost. So supply should flow there twice a week.
2) He is getting about 50 supply / day out of Magwe (100 refinery points base, about half damaged for 50 refinery points = 50 supply and 450 gas I think). What does this buy him? It seems to me like this is a drop in the bucket for aircraft (about 50 fighters and 50 bombers in Magwe) and tanks
50 supply is enough to keep that airforce flying or it can maintain just over a division out of combat. It doesn't give him any spare to replace losses.
3) What is the quickest way to exhaust his supply (assuming I cut off northern Rangoon)? Is it bombing his units or airfields, forcing his fighters up with sweeps, or do I bite the bullet and direct assault?
My opinion:
1. Destroying the refineries.
2. Bombing airfields.
I'm trying to relieve the pressure in Java by opening a second front. It would also allow me to use / retreat my forces in Rangoon... as of right now it is a stalemate - both sides too strong for the other to attack.
Supply can still flow. Your best bet at cutting off supply to Magwe in particular is to take Magwe's road hex sides. Taking Toungoo wouldn't do it. You would need Pegu to be sure, and I don't think you can take or hold Pegu this early in the war.
Listen to Obvert. It depends on what your opponent knows and if he still has control of the sea. But that little dot base at Ramree Island is a great place to own and supply will flow freely into Burma from there. It should not but it does. And, like Obvert says, if your opponent has enough sense then he will just wait for you to move down there and invade up North plus flood some troops into Moumein of Pegu and you will be served up on a platter. But this is assuming your opponent knows what he is doing. Based on the current situation on the map, I have some doubts about this.
As for your questions. He controls a road hex leading into Rangoon and then the one leading north to Prone. Supply will flow through this route. You will have to cut both the junction at Tungoo and the road leading north from Rangoo to really mess up his supply situation.
Ok... I think he is weak in Burma (weaker than the normal Japanese player at this point due to trouble in Java). I would like to create havoc in Burma. But now you guys have me thinking if it even makes sense. I hear your arguments that the allies are week in August of '42. But I think this game may be unique.
I have:
Rangoon:
17th Indian Div (410 AV)
39th Indian Div (350 AV)
3 Indian Bdes at 127 AV each
assorted btns, BFs, etc. All told an AV 1301 in Rangoon, with 40k supply and size 6 forts
on the west road I have 254th Armor Bde (207 AV), 3rd Carabiniers Rgt (52 AV), 43rd Cav Rgt(52 AV), 45th Recce Rgt (40AV)... all fresh with supply
following them is the 26th Indian Bde at 141 AV, the 255th Arm Bde at 183 AV
The 2nd British Div (440 AV) is en route as well (at Chittagong). There are several restricted Indian units on the border, 2 Chinese divisions refitting in Dimapur (160 AV, 137 AV - the 137 is only short a few squads from full TO&E), and US units are enroute from 2 weeks to 2 months out... starting with a Marine Regiment, then 2 Inf regiments, a Cav regiment, and when I can buy them out, the 41st Inf Div
Intel shows the following opposition (full data below):
Rangoon:
Imperial Guards Division
21st Ind Mixed Bde
4th Bde
12 Tank Regiment
Pegu / Moulmein
7th RTA Division - maybe last sigint hit was on 4/9, and it was for "7th RTA/B Division"
Prome - empty, 9/10 DL
The Rest:
112th Infantry Reg - Katha (8/13)
14th Tank Regiment - that unit east of Akyab - beat up, and has been in the jungle for a while
1st Raiding Regiment - Central Burma
55th Cavalry Regiment - Central Burma (last seen at Mandalay 5/9)
11th Tank Regiment - Paoshan
10th Tank Regiment - Paoshan (one of these is moving back to Burma)
12th Tank Regiment - Central Burma (last seen at Mandalay on 6/16)
lots of base forces, HQs, and misc support units
So a total of about 7-10 Inf Bdes (counting divisions as 3 Bdes - assuming the 7th RTA is present), 5 Armor Regiments (1 beat up, 1-2 in China), and a Cav Regiment
I have 13 Inf Bdes and 3 Armor Regiments (counting the 3 smallish ones as 1). With jarheads and a Chindit para Regiment due within a few weeks.
So my new question to you experienced people, is it ridiculous to attempt to cut the roads at Prome and Toungoo junction (road 1 hex south of Toungoo), then turn north into Irrawaddy valley?
Detailed enemy unit dispositions extracted from sigint and combat reports:
Rangoon: 10 units (though 0 DL 14k troops, 82 guns, 56 AFVs. Intel hits are:
Imperial Guards Division (08/18/42)
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade (08/07/42)
4th Brigade (08/07/42)
12th Tank Regiment (08/07/42)
55th Engineer Regiment (08/07/42)
15th Army (08/07/42)
55th Mountain Gun Regiment (08/07/42)
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion (08/07/42)
101st JAAF AF Bn (07/03/42)
112th Infantry Regiment (01/23/42)
14th Tank Regiment (01/19/42)
note that on 8/7 he shelled me, so those are from a combat report. The rest are sigint. The ones from Jan can be ignored.
Pegu (4 units, 0 DL):
43rd Const Co (08/16/42)
14th Tank Regiment (01/07/42)
Imperial Guards Division (01/07/42)
112th Infantry Regiment (01/07/42)
55th Engineer Regiment (01/07/42)
55th Mountain Gun Regiment (01/07/42)
15th Army (01/07/42)
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion (01/07/42)
all old data except the 43rd Const Co
Moulmein (8 units, 0 DL, 16k troops, 69 guns, 9 AFVs):
17th JAAF AF Bn (08/12/42)
15th JAAF AF Bn (08/11/42)
93rd JAAF AF Bn (05/14/42)
7th RTA/B Division (04/09/42)
Combined Fleet (03/23/42)
5th Air Division (03/09/42)
15th JAAF Base Force (02/15/42)
14th Tank Regiment (01/02/42)
Imperial Guards Division (01/02/42)
112th Infantry Regiment (01/02/42)
55th Engineer Regiment (01/02/42)
15th Army (01/02/42)
55th Mountain Gun Regiment (01/02/42)
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion (01/02/42)
Combined fleet (!?) perhaps to unload supplies or troops? Otherwise base forces and the 7th RTA Division.
Magwe (11 units, 0 DL)
5th JAAF AF Bn (08/12/42)
36th JNAF AF Unit (08/03/42)
144th JAAF AF Bn (07/10/42)
7th JAAF Base Force (06/01/42)
54th Field AA Battalion (05/18/42)
112th Infantry Regiment (04/22/42)
1/1st Raiding Regiment (04/21/42)
6th Field AF Construction Battalion (04/03/42)
1st Raiding Regiment (03/29/42)
35th JNAF AF Unit (03/25/42)
62nd JAAF AF Bn (03/18/42)
55th Cavalry Regiment (03/10/42)
11th Tank Regiment (03/10/42)
The Rest:
Mandalay
15th Const Co (07/05/42)
12th Tank Regiment (06/16/42)
6th Field AF Construction Battalion (06/07/42)
10th Tank Regiment (05/18/42)
112th Infantry Regiment (05/18/42)
11th Tank Regiment (05/18/42)
55th Cavalry Regiment (05/09/42)
Taung Gyi
3/1st Raiding Regiment (02/06/42)
Meiktila
Shwebo
11th Tank Regiment (03/30/42)
Prome
Toungoo
15th JAAF Base Force (05/29/42)
5th Air Division (04/01/42)
55th Cavalry Regiment (01/22/42)
Lashio
10th Tank Regiment (06/04/42)
Katha
112th Infantry Regiment (08/13/42)
Myitkyina
Ramree
14th Tank Regiment (02/10/42)
10/27th JAAF AF Bn is loaded on xAK Toho Maru moving to Ramree Island. (enroute 08/10/42)
9/47th Const Co is loaded on xAP Dairen Maru moving to Ramree Island. (enroute 08/09/42)
3/21st Fld AA Gun Co is loaded on a Japanese xAP moving to Ramree Island. (enroute 08/07/42)
3/33rd JAAF AF Coy is loaded on a Brazil Maru class xAP moving to Ramree Island. (enroute 07/31/42)
Akyab
14th Tank Regiment (07/01/42)
Paoshan
11th Tank Regiment (07/23/42)
10th Tank Regiment (07/22/42)
My 2 cents is it is hard for Japan to get supplies into Burma if you hold Rangoon. So anything you do to make this problem worse is a good thing. Even if you lose some units doing it.
I also disagree that Rangoon is lost at this point. If you can get a Fast TF into there, that would help too.
From my experience with Japan, unless he has really cleaned your clock somewhere else, the game is pretty much over for him. Not having clear control of Java at this point is really, really bad for Japan. Must less Rangoon.
My 2 cents is it is hard for Japan to get supplies into Burma if you hold Rangoon. So anything you do to make this problem worse is a good thing. Even if you lose some units doing it.
I also disagree that Rangoon is lost at this point. If you can get a Fast TF into there, that would help too.
From my experience with Japan, unless he has really cleaned your clock somewhere else, the game is pretty much over for him. Not having clear control of Java at this point is really, really bad for Japan. Must less Rangoon.
The game was taken one from a very inexperienced first opponent to a now somewhat more experienced and competent one, seemingly. Because of this change, the new opponent has to clean the mess of the old one. Once this is done we'll see what he's made of, but you can't simply assume he will not make sound choices. That is what gets commanders into trouble.
Just to reverse track in the knowledge of eventual Allied material excess, if you really want to cause him problems, keep on in Burma ... then land in the Kuriles before winter.[:D]
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
First thing to consider is a Japanese landing in force in Chittagong or Calcutta. Are both of those held with 1000AV and CD and AA units galore? If so then your Burma gambit may be worthwhile. If you want to keep your Rangoon troops alive then you are going to need a Navy... with Carriers. Consider moving a credible CV force to the IO to maintain your SLOC and ensure that the Japanese can not land behind you. Then go wild. Move through the jungle to outflank and unpin his defensive positions and watch the IJA run back to Moulmein. Consider how you intend to take Moulmein - seaborne landing behind, short flank thru the jungle or the long trek thru Taung Gui and the jungle track to Siam.
