Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Piercing Fortress Europa is a new game from veteran game designer Frank Hunter, which covers the campaigns of the Western Allies from July, 1943 through the end of April, 1945 in Sicily and Italy. Each area has its own map and time scale to best represent the campaigns for Sicily and Italy and the player is offered complete freedom, limited only by a historical order of battle and logistics model, to plan his operations and explore all of the many “what ifs” that the Italian theater has to offer.
PKH
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:26 pm

Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by PKH »

Just sharing what I've learned out so far as allies.

- Don't bother walking from Messina, just get enough sea transport to take Taranto, and a port on the west coast.
- Don't walk reinforcements from Messina, it quickly get's cheaper and faster to use sea transport.
- Stock up on sea transport while it's cheap, you will need a lot later to get reinforcements up. Get a couple or more per turn while they cost 1 supply.
- Try to only get combat supply when you're near a 100% port to save fuel. There's no fuel cost in the port hex.
- The AI will often withdraw from cities if you can pass them on the sides.
- The AI tends to move it's units around quite a bit, so gaps or weak points tend to open up.

tombo
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:34 pm

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by tombo »

PKH,

does the game run smooth...any lockups, CTD, or gamey stuff or missing game play features?

Is there a game U can compare too so i can gauge some?

Looking to pickup soon.

cheers
PKH
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:26 pm

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by PKH »

The game runs fine. The UI is on the whole ok, and the map is very functional and looks good. Some things like figuring out which beach is where in the port interface could be improved by moving the map to it when you click on ports and beaches f.ex. Same with reinforcements.

The axis AI seems ok, but it's not too hard to break through and isolate units, I find. Especially in the start when there's only a few units. I have to try playing the axis to get the full perspective.

I haven't played other wego games except flashpoint campaigns (?), so I don't have much to compare to. It is more interesting and realistic than traditional turn based games, I think.

What the replay value is, remains to be seen. I don't think I'll play allies again if I get a decisive victory in the current campaign. Playing as the axis could be the most interesting and is probably harder, but that depends on how good the allied AI is also.
User avatar
Duck Doc
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:22 am

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Duck Doc »

Shouldn't stockpiled transport points vanish as the Allies shift naval assets to northwest Europe for Overlord? Kind of gives the Allies a gamey advantage to stockpile this way.

Shouldn't walking be cheaper than taking a cruise? Really!

Sounds like you need a human opponent.

Congrats on your victory and

Just curious,

(Would be interested in other opinions about the AI.)

ORIGINAL: PKH

Just sharing what I've learned out so far as allies.

- Don't bother walking from Messina, just get enough sea transport to take Taranto, and a port on the west coast.
- Don't walk reinforcements from Messina, it quickly get's cheaper and faster to use sea transport.
- Stock up on sea transport while it's cheap, you will need a lot later to get reinforcements up. Get a couple or more per turn while they cost 1 supply.
- Try to only get combat supply when you're near a 100% port to save fuel. There's no fuel cost in the port hex.
- The AI will often withdraw from cities if you can pass them on the sides.
- The AI tends to move it's units around quite a bit, so gaps or weak points tend to open up.

zgrant
Posts: 326
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:56 am

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by zgrant »

ORIGINAL: Dale H

Shouldn't stockpiled transport points vanish as the Allies shift naval assets to northwest Europe for Overlord? Kind of gives the Allies a gamey advantage to stockpile this way.

Shouldn't walking be cheaper than taking a cruise? Really!

Transporting units becomes more expensive with the passage of time, so if you stockpile and wait to amphibious assault, it will cost more points. There is no advantage in waiting, in fact, waiting can make invading too expensive because it eats into your fuel and combat supplies.

Walking is much cheaper than the cruise, it is also much, much slower.
PKH
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:26 pm

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by PKH »

The cost of buying goes up over time, but you pay when you buy. I don't think there's a cost to using them, at least I haven't noticed any.

I'm not saying one should wait a long time to invade. I invaded on turn 2 with 2 amphibious assaults.

The fuel spent walking to the front line gets expensive quickly, especially once workers for ports in the south are removed for use further north. Even at 100% supply you spend 1 fuel per stacking point per hex, so once you go beyond 25 hexes from Messina, it costs less fuel to use sea transport.
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

I beat the AI in Sicily in an hour without even knowing the full rule set. In the first few turns of the grand campaign, I had already pocketed three German divisions.

The AI is not good enough to give any half decent player a fight. PBEM is your best bet at present.
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
FrankHunter
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:07 am

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by FrankHunter »

The Sicily AI, for both sides, is weaker than it is in the Italian campaign as that's the introductory scenario and the Germans don't have the forces to maintain a real front.

In Italy the testers and I went back and forth on the AI a bit, trying to keep the Germans in place when holding a strong front while still making sure they remained mobile enough to deal with new threats. I did make a change in the final weeks to increase the German's tendency to stay put when in a strong line (Italy only, no changes to Sicily were made).
User avatar
FroBodine
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:13 am
Location: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by FroBodine »

I look forward to reading more opinions on the A.I. in the other scenarios. I also will play most of my time against the computer, so a good AI is essential.
Panzeh
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:00 pm

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Panzeh »

When I did a campaign, i found that the AI did a slow fighting retreat up the boot that seemed moderately successful. I was able to destroy some of the panzergrenadier divisions, but still only got a minor victory because when I got to the Po Valley, the AI had a ton of units available and I didn't. Many units were still sitting in Messina for me.

I think the AI might have been able to form a solid defense had I stopped to make sure to ship the guys languishing in Messina, but it ended up hurting me in the Po as I just didn't have the units to clean everything up.
User avatar
Ralph1961
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 8:00 am

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Ralph1961 »

Another tip
I have found that it can be tough to attack with multiple units especially the Americans due to stacking rules so make sure you can co ordinate units as much as possible.
Panzeh
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:00 pm

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Panzeh »

ORIGINAL: Ralph Harper

Another tip
I have found that it can be tough to attack with multiple units especially the Americans due to stacking rules so make sure you can co ordinate units as much as possible.

Yeah, i've found that the smaller brigade sized units are great for this purpose. In my first campaign I mostly brought in 4/5 stack value armored and infantry divisions which ended up having a hard time in places.
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

The Sicily AI, for both sides, is weaker than it is in the Italian campaign as that's the introductory scenario and the Germans don't have the forces to maintain a real front.

In Italy the testers and I went back and forth on the AI a bit, trying to keep the Germans in place when holding a strong front while still making sure they remained mobile enough to deal with new threats. I did make a change in the final weeks to increase the German's tendency to stay put when in a strong line (Italy only, no changes to Sicily were made).

Thanks for replying, Frank. I love your game and will post or IM you any AI-related comments over the coming weeks. Don't let my rather blunt style put you off! This is a refreshing spin on the hex-based war game.
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

This is what I am seeing with the Axis AI in the Grand Campaign.

Despite my advance, the AI is still pushing individual units southwards, rather than forming a defensive line.

Image
Attachments
AI.jpg
AI.jpg (639.2 KiB) Viewed 247 times
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
FrankHunter
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:07 am

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by FrankHunter »

redmarkus, not at all, I'm always looking to improve the AI.

Its tough to tell a lot from a screenshot because although that looks like a threat in the east I'm not sure about some things. It looks like the game is in a very fluid state and the AI is more focused on objectives other than creating a line. Usually that fluid state settles down.

If you wish and you have the save for that turn email it to me at fhunter@telus.net and I'll load it and can walk through the AI and see why it decided to do what its doing.
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

Thanks Frank - sending those now.

After losing 1-2 divisions the Axis AI has now pulled back and created the kind of line I would have expected.

Cheers,

MJ
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
User avatar
Leibst
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:18 pm
Contact:

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Leibst »

redmarkus4 you are better that Guderian with that blitz!!!
I'm just learning the game but in my second try i'm at Naples and Foggia by Feb 1944. My advance is slower indeed and AI is not doing really bad, just a pair of div. surrendered.
Designer of AGEOD & HQ English Civil War, Thirty Years War and España:1936
Designer of Battles For Spain and Libertad o Muerte!
https://hqwargames.com
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

ORIGINAL: Leibst

redmarkus4 you are better that Guderian with that blitz!!!
I'm just learning the game but in my second try i'm at Naples and Foggia by Feb 1944. My advance is slower indeed and AI is not doing really bad, just a pair of div. surrendered.

OK... I had Naples from the turn before and by the next few turns I was able to start preparing to attack Cassino. This was on Normal difficulty.

Here is the March 44 situation. I find that Cassino does not represent the block to movement up the highway that it should. I can already see how I might simply bypass it.

Image
Attachments
AI.jpg
AI.jpg (639.18 KiB) Viewed 247 times
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

The situation on 26 May 44. Instead of attempting a landing at Anzio, I forced the Gustav Line and flanked Cassino with a left hook up the highway.

Image
Attachments
AI.jpg
AI.jpg (685.21 KiB) Viewed 247 times
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign

Post by Redmarkus5 »

Rome falls on 7 June. More Axis troops pocketed.

Image
Attachments
AI.jpg
AI.jpg (272.68 KiB) Viewed 247 times
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
Post Reply

Return to “Piercing Fortress Europa”