"Tiger Fetish"

[KG Erwin]

Alright, it's time for me to admit it, I fell into the group that thought the Germans had the coolest-looking weapons and uniforms of WWII. Yes, I'm a USMC fan, but they looked like workmen compared to the Germans. How many of you became "German fans" in wargames because of their sartorial splendor ? This is how I felt when I first started in board wargames in the mid-1960s, and I still have an occasional need to play as them. Their weapons had a weird, futuristic look about them which captivated the comic book artists of the 60s, and other nations' weapon and uniform design, which continues to this day.

[warspite1]

As a kid growing up, and I know my mates felt the same way, we were influenced by the films of the time and the Airfix models we made (we didn't read books - but looked at the pictures). The general, high level, feeling about WWII was that:

The Germans were the most professional, they had the coolest looking equipment - Bismarck, the Panther Tank, the FW-190. They had great uniforms. But they had the SS - boo!
The Americans, thanks to Hollywood, we're the most colourful. All macho, gung-ho, didn't give a fig for authority-type characters who got the job done with huge amounts of equipment - oh and they seemed to wear what they liked.
The Russians were brave, resourceful, not afraid to die. Didn't know much about them other than they had a fantastic tank!
The Japanese were brave fighters but hideously cruel - didnt like them....but liked their Zero - white with a big red blob.
The Italians were hapless, the French even more so.
The British. Well you root for the home team of course and films like the Dambusters and Battle of Britain made you proud. We were nowhere near as cool as the Germans, nor as colourful as the Americans, but we had the Spitfire, the biggest navy, and a stiff upper lip. [;)]

Ah the innocence of youth.......

Edit: spelling

[Josh]

Well Hugo Boss (from the clothing company) was involved in designing SS (and SA too if I remember correctly) clothes, just to look sharp and impress the ladies. Guess he did a good job.

[Cataphract88]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

As a kid growing up, and I know my mates felt the same way, we were influenced by the films of the time and the air fix models we made (we didn't read books - but looked at the pictures). The general, high level, feeling about WWII was that:

The Germans were the most professional, they had the coolest looking equipment - Bismarck, the Panther Tank, the FW-190. They had great uniforms. But they had the SS - boo!
The Americans, thanks to Hollywood, we're the most colourful. All macho, gung-ho, didn't give a fig for authority-type characters who got the job done with huge amounts of equipment - oh and they seemed to wear what they liked.
The Russians were brave, resourceful, not afraid to die. Didn't know much about them other than they had a fantastic tank!
The Japanese were brave fighters but hideously cruel - didnt like them....but liked their Zero - white with a big red blob.
The Italians were hapless, the French even more so.
The British. Well you root for the home team of course and films like the Dambusters and Battle of Britain made you proud. We were nowhere as cool as the Germans, as colourful as the Americans, but we had the Spitfire, the biggest navy, and a stiff upper lip. [;)]

Ah the innocence of youth.......

Talking of Airfix, as well as the models (mainly ships in my case), I used to collect the boxes of soldiers - 1:72 and (better still) 1:35 scale - I had loads from all sorts of eras. But I was always drawn to the German Infantry and Afrika Korps figures, which seemed better to me as a child.

Funnily enough, a few years back, when they re-released Airfix 1:35 scale soldiers, my son started to collect them avidly. No prizes for guessing which were his favourites too.[:)]

[Saint Ruth]

Yes, same here. When I was a kid I made model and the German stuff was just cooler.

Tigers and Panthers and even the Pz III and IV. And of course the Sd.Kfz. 251 looks a hell of a lot better than the US WWII M3 Halftrack, never mind the aircraft, the Stukas and He111 and Fw190s...

Lookswise, a Sherman comes nowhere near the a T-34/85 or a Pz IV...

That said, the Russian armour has a certain brutalistic "charm" (e.g. the SU-152 etc).

But of course the P51, Spitfire were very good looking machines.

The British made pretty ugly tanks (e.g. the Churchill - I still remember trying to make an Airfix of that one...those little wheels did my little head in)...

[Rodwonder]

Sadly I'm too drawn to the German Tanks and aircraft models... Even World War one airplanes. There is just an aesthetic appeal to the vehicles and aircraft. And I'm in the middle of a German long campaign in spww2... I know that they are the bad guys but I'm drawn to play them in war games more than not. Why is this?

[Neilster]

It has to be remembered that Germany entered the war with mostly brand new equipment. The Allies were about 18 months behind the rearmament curve, so it's not surprising that their equipment looked "cooler". It was generally more modern. Additionally, their weapons often had a teutonically purposeful look and their high quality enhanced their reputation.

This developmental lead meant that the next generation of German weapon systems tended to arrive in about early 1943 and, in tanks at least, outclassed their opponents and had time to see plenty of action. The advanced Allied army equipment typically arrived after June 1944. Allied industrial potential and good planning saw them fielding advanced aerial weapons at about the same time as Germany, generally in the last year of the European war.

Here are a few Allied designs from roughly the first half of the war that I think look cool. A Crusader tank, a P-39 Airacobra and a Hawker Typhoon.

Cheers, Neilster

[Twotribes]

The P-39 was a mediocre fighter. It went on to serve well as a ground attack aircraft though and the last version did well in the Soviet Union.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The P-39 was a mediocre fighter. It went on to serve well as a ground attack aircraft though and the last version did well in the Soviet Union.

The P-39 did quite well as a fighter in the hands of Russian pilots. The air war on the Eastern Front tended to be at lower altitudes where the Airacobra was not at a disadvantage. It was rarely used as a ground attack aircraft in the Soviet Union and it's a misconception that it was. It was mainly used in an air-to-air role.

Cheers, Neilster

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

It has to be remembered that Germany entered the war with mostly brand new equipment. The Allies were about 18 months behind the rearmament curve, so it's not surprising that their equipment looked "cooler". It was generally more modern. Additionally, their weapons often had a teutonically purposeful look and their high quality enhanced their reputation.

This developmental lead meant that the next generation of German weapon systems tended to arrive in about early 1943 and, in tanks at least, outclassed their opponents and had time to see plenty of action. The advanced Allied army equipment typically arrived after June 1944. Allied industrial potential and good planning saw them fielding advanced aerial weapons at about the same time as Germany, generally in the last year of the European war.

Here are a few Allied designs from roughly the first half of the war that I think look cool. A Crusader tank, a P-39 Airacobra and a Hawker Typhoon.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

I think that while British tanks were a bit of a joke, at least our aircraft were the dogs dangly bits - even early war. The Mosquito and the Beaufighter

[Neilster]

The Mosquito especially...what an aircraft. Britain finally got their tank act together right at the end. It's a pity it took so long.

Cheers, Neilster

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

The Mosquito especially...what an aircraft. Britain finally got their tank act together right at the end. It's a pity it took so long.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

And as for ships, the RN ships looked very nice, beautiful even (albeit more than a little fragile - especially our cruisers). But apart from the horny updated Queen Elizabeths, the real interest was with the Yamatos and Iowas (sheer size) the Bismarcks and Scharnhorsts (mean and purposeful looking) and the South Dakotas (Just a pugnacious thug of a ship [&o])

[Sabre21]

I was browsing the forum and saw this thread listed and first thing came to mind "Tiger fetish...what the heck". Of course I should have figured tanks considering the forum, but you never know.

For you real tiger fetishers, here is a pic I took.

[wesy]

The Japanese had some nice looking stuff:

Yamato



Dinah - also known by allied code folks as "Dinah the one with the nice linah". This one is located in RAF Museum Cosford UK.

[Alchenar]

Actually one of the things that I noticed happen for me when I got into wargaming was noticing just how bad all the 'cool' German stuff actually is. The advantage the PzIII/IV had over their opponents were that they were designed with the fundamentals that Guderian had laid down - they all need speed, a radio, and the commander needs to be free to do his job. Other than that they're pretty bad - no sloped surfaces, under-performing guns even in 1940 etc.

And then you look at the Tiger and you realise that beyond the sexy gun and armour stats not only do the same problems exist (still no sloped surfaces) but a whole range of new ones like having an underpowered engine and suspension that's not strong enough have been introduced.

Soviet equipment on the other hand has an elegant practicality to it. You want a sub-machine gun? The PPSh is more sub-machinegun than you'll ever need. You want a tank? Here's a T-34. It's not a very good tank? Here's a more better T-34. Yeah the engine will probably break after a few hundred miles but that's okay because we have a few thousand new ones waiting. Still want a better tank? Have a Stalin tank, it's a T-34 but bigger. We don't have the tube artillery available to shell that enemy position you've found but that's okay because we have some Katyushas just tell us which grid square it's in.

[Neilster]

That is correct, although those three man German turrets with radios and quality optics allied with excellent training and combat experience made up for a host of ills.

The Tiger compensated for a lack of sloped armour with sheer thickness, although that exacerbated the engine, transmission and suspension troubles. By the time it and the Panther were introduced, Germany was mainly on the defensive, so the lack of mobility was less of a problem. They were often picking off enemy armour from a position for a while before reversing into another one.

From a big picture perspective, having lots of pretty good Soviet armour was fine. It was a lot less fine if you were in a T-34/76 that got its turret blown off by a Tiger it never saw from 1500 metres away.

Cheers, Neilster

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The P-39 was a mediocre fighter. It went on to serve well as a ground attack aircraft though and the last version did well in the Soviet Union.

The P-39 did quite well as a fighter in the hands of Russian pilots. The air war on the Eastern Front tended to be at lower altitudes where the Airacobra was not at a disadvantage. It was rarely used as a ground attack aircraft in the Soviet Union and it's a misconception that it was. It was mainly used in an air-to-air role.

Cheers, Neilster

The USA used it in Europe in the ground attack role, sorry if that was confusing.

[gradenko2k]

A lot of my early exposure to wargames was at the operational scale where I didn't really get a feel for how cool the German equipment was, I instead grew up with the "incredible industrial might of the US and Soviet Union crushes Germany in 10:1 odds" archetype

[wodin]

Hugo Boss designed their uniforms..

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hugo Boss designed their uniforms..

Got a source for that? It appears that he was a Nazi and used forced labour but he didn't design Nazi uniforms but rather was one of the manufacturers.

http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 83,00.html

Cheers, Neilster