Japan: How many squadrons to keep as ASW? naval search?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I have a question about the reasonable number of planes I should keep for defensive ASW and naval search perimeters

At the beginning of the game I had most of my HI squadrons doing trainning, I am now at a point when I have enough pilots reasonably well trained for ASW/ search + I have been building a lot of FP and using the Chiyodas to resize many squadrons to 24 planes.

So... I am thinking about building my defensive perimeter as follows:
- ASW: roughly 10 to 12 FP squadrons (24 planes each) in defensive ASW. these to cover from Singapore to the HI merchant lanes.
- naval search: all flying boats + at 3 or 4 bomber squadrons + 4 to 6 FPs, these spread to regions where I can expect enemy action

would that be reasonable?

[Feltan]

When I played Japan in WITP, I started using all the crappy Japanese dive bombers in an ASW role. After a while they got good at it, and there are a lot of them so you can sprinkle them around various bases.

In my experience, they are nearly worthless in ground attack roles or against airfields/ports. However, their bomb load can ruin a sub captain's day.

It eventually got to the point that my opponent withdrew subs from the HI and had to seek the "mid-Atlantic gap" in the Pacific -- loitering off the coast of Japan or around bases was just too costly for him.

Regards,
Feltan

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Thanks Feltan

are you talking army dive bombers? Ki-51 and friends?

[Feltan]

Yes.

Regards,
Feltan

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Thanks Feltan

are you talking army dive bombers? Ki-51 and friends?

In AE those are not DB. In WITP the Sonia was, but in AE it's just a 1E LB. Also, at range 2 max for ASW, that's not going to get to much.

The Ki-48 II is a divebomber, but 2E.

In my experience ASW air is too powerful for Japan, but if you want to optimize your effort, use 2E for their range and also train low naval bombing.

As to the OP, check the Tracker map and load the search arc setting. It'll show whether you have any holes in your arcs. It sounds like with the resizing you've been doing with FP and the number of groups you're using you should have quite a lot covered.

[Hanzberger]

ORIGINAL: Feltan

When I played Japan in WITP, I started using all the crappy Japanese dive bombers in an ASW role. After a while they got good at it, and there are a lot of them so you can sprinkle them around various bases.

In my experience, they are nearly worthless in ground attack roles or against airfields/ports. However, their bomb load can ruin a sub captain's day.

It eventually got to the point that my opponent withdrew subs from the HI and had to seek the "mid-Atlantic gap" in the Pacific -- loitering off the coast of Japan or around bases was just too costly for him.

Regards,
Feltan

Feltan would you recommend then building out all the K 51's?

[panzer cat]

I start off with 1e bombers at choke points and near major ports at both ends of my convoy routes. I upgrade them to older 2e bombers as they become available. I try to keep asw coverage all along my major routes.

[Feltan]

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

ORIGINAL: Feltan

When I played Japan in WITP, I started using all the crappy Japanese dive bombers in an ASW role. After a while they got good at it, and there are a lot of them so you can sprinkle them around various bases.

In my experience, they are nearly worthless in ground attack roles or against airfields/ports. However, their bomb load can ruin a sub captain's day.

It eventually got to the point that my opponent withdrew subs from the HI and had to seek the "mid-Atlantic gap" in the Pacific -- loitering off the coast of Japan or around bases was just too costly for him.

Regards,
Feltan

Feltan would you recommend then building out all the K 51's?

I am probably not the best person to respond to that question. I haven't played Japan in AE as a PBEM, and production was never my strong point. Panzer cat's response is something I would likely lean toward, but I am just speculating.

Regards,
Feltan

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I won't build any Ki-51; you start with plenty 1-ENG bombers (Ki-30, Ki-32, Ki-51) and 2-ENGs are more useful. so eventually you will want to transform all into 2-ENG

That said, I have a backup plan to start limited production of Ki-32 (to consume old engines - thus half price), if I see that I am running out of 1-ENGs and lack PPs

[sventhebold]

Make sure you use bombers that carry a 500 lb bomb or better as anything less wont do enough damage.

[Amoral]

I disagree. Even a 60kg bomb from a float plane can mission-kill a sub. And planes that carry 4 light bombs rather than 1 heavy bomb have more chances to hit.

[sventhebold]

You think so? I have had better results with the heavier bombs as it made a bigger impact.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

You think so? I have had better results with the heavier bombs as it made a bigger impact.

A 250kg bomb is more than enough to kill a sub. A 60kg bomb can easily damage them, forcing them to get back to repair yards

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

You think so? I have had better results with the heavier bombs as it made a bigger impact.

A 250kg bomb is more than enough to kill a sub. A 60kg bomb can easily damage them, forcing them to get back to repair yards

as the Allied player, I'd say I've lost only 1 out of 3 subs max from single 250kg bomb hits. Might be 1 out of 4. Think I've never lost a sub to anything smaller than a 250kg bomb. Only playing Babes though that
got reduced ordnance effects, so stock might be different when it comes down to 250kg bomb hits.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

The biggest challenge of Ki-51 as ASW is not the bomb load, but the short range of 2 hexes.

If you are taking the time and effort to train the pilots, then it is better to give them planes that will maximize coverage, 2 hexes is really just point defense

thanks and best regards

[nashvillen]

A spotted sub is as good as a mission kill sub. IF you see them, they have a much harder time affecting you. I use split Sally squadrons 1/3 each to cover a lot of territory along with re-sized Jake squadrons. I also escort my tankers with a CVE with Kates on (carrier capable at first) set to search ahead of the direction of travel.

It is effective. Loss very little shipping to subs. Mostly to air.

Going into November 1945 and I have no fuel, but half a million HI left.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: nashvillen
Going into November 1945 and I have no fuel, but half a million HI left.

Good Job on your economy ... you'll run out just about game end ... nice ... that's hard to do ....

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

You think so? I have had better results with the heavier bombs as it made a bigger impact.

A 250kg bomb is more than enough to kill a sub. A 60kg bomb can easily damage them, forcing them to get back to repair yards

as the Allied player, I'd say I've lost only 1 out of 3 subs max from single 250kg bomb hits. Might be 1 out of 4. Think I've never lost a sub to anything smaller than a 250kg bomb. Only playing Babes though that
got reduced ordnance effects, so stock might be different when it comes down to 250kg bomb hits.

Okay.. good to know some of the differences between admiral edition (plus Industry and building planes) and witp, in WITP the KI 30-Ann was a killer-subs; hits many subs at asw combat with his 100kg AP bomb, they were terrorific sinking subs, maybe some day i buy admiral edition to taste the KI-30 family planes
Thanks for the info castor troy
Saludos.

[Balou]

btw: all those pilots on asw, after months and months, should become experts of some sort. What job can they finally be assigned to ?

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Balou

btw: all those pilots on asw, after months and months, should become experts of some sort. What job can they finally be assigned to ?

Well it is their main experience level that will rise. Always a good thing. Then you can cull them out and train them in other key skills because you do not need your best pilots for ASW. As the Allied player I can attest that heavy and determined air ASW is the most effective way to deal with Allied subs until the super Es come on line in stock and probably forever in any of the mods. Ark does a great job and although I was not losing many subs-it was not unusual for me to have 30 or more in the yard or returning to base due to damage at any given time. 75% of this was from bomb damage.