2.03 Update Feedback

[CapnDarwin]

We are feeling pretty good about 2.03 except for breaking Thermal Sights at night and a odd scroll bar bug. We will be discussing a hot fix for these over the weekend as well as fixing the bugs.

[Lowlaner2012]

So will the night time thermal bug be fixed by hotfix then?

I just played the first mission of the School teacher campaign, really enjoyed it, awesome game and patch... I will wait for the thermal fix before I go onto the 2nd scenario...

Thanks

[jack54]

Just played Pied Piper and I don't think the W.German Support units fired by themselves, (little box Checked).... they fired where I tell them to though! Could somebody else check this out. It may be nothing.

[Plodder]

If I could put in a request for the modding guides, and tutorial guide, for that matter, to have clickable bookmarks please. They make navigating pdfs soo much easier.

[CapnDarwin]

@ the Plodder - I'm using a very simple PDF converter. I will see if there is an option.

@ jack54 - I have not seen any issue in testing, but let us know if you can confirm an issue. Grab us a save game too if you can.

@ highlandcharge - yes we would hot fix that and any other major issue that pops this weekend.

[Lowlaner2012]

Hi Jack, now I think of it... the German artillery did not fire by itself when I played the 1st mission in the WG School teacher campaign, I had to tell it where and when to fire, I made sure I ticked staff auto firing box when I started the campaign...

Thanks

[Plodder]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

@ the Plodder - I'm using a very simple PDF converter. I will see if there is an option.

If it doesn't, try OpenOffice, it has a one click pdf converter that uses the TOC to create it's bookmarks.

[CapnDarwin]

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[jack54]

Capn, I just posted a save in Tech support... this area of the forum wouldn't take it. I tried a few times and don't think the German Support units are firing.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

The Jaguars are not joking around, they're very good at destroying tanks, even better than most of my Leopards thus far.

For those of you that are WWII fanatics you can compare a Jaguar to a King Tiger in 1941. They are nasty little beasts with a huge bite at long range!

I've had them ruin my day many times when I play the Soviets!! [:@] [:D]

Good Hunting.

MR

[ComradeP]

I also noticed the artillery not firing automatically when on call but as stated in the tech support thread, that's probably due to the lack of an HQ. They fired normally when ordered to do so.

I'm wondering if the decrease in artillery effectiveness is due to changes in the patch or simply because the artillery units are somewhat smaller than the US ones in the Grogheads 2.03 contest version. In the latter version, artillery was extremely effective, I even got the feeling that ICM and regular ammo were switched somehow as casualties from ICM were lower than from regular neutralizing fire barrages every single time. Saturation area fire seemed to work more like how artillery works in this version, as it wasn't nearly as good as neutralizing fire.

[ComradeP]

If any of the developers has time, could you check if the issue with fallen out subunits in a campaign not being displayed as repaired even though you can't repair them (there's no way to increase the "hours" scale to repair them) is purely visual (as in: they're depicted as being knocked out in the force roster and subunits overview, but are actually there) or if the units are actually not there?

The Red Hammer campaign is less enjoyable than the School Teacher campaign thus far because the scenario designer seemed to have forgotten about the sudden death feature, which makes it impossible to capture the final objectives. The campaign essentially encourages poor play (if you overrun the West German forces early, you'll get a marginal victory at best). This might also be the case for the US campaign, as judging by some of the AAR's even if you inflict significant losses on the Soviets, you'll still get a marginal victory.

I'm also not sure how the refitting process for destroyed units is supposed to work. I indicated that 227 VP's should be used (enough to repair everything) but the game used about half and only half the units returned. Why does the game allow you to put in a VP total for refits that doesn't actually result in that total being refitted? Is there variability, if so: where is that documented/what is the formula (roughly)?

Small units continue to be a big problem. If you want to advance fast, you'll rely on hasty move orders, but tiny remnants are very difficult to destroy currently (one or two element leftovers have inflicted more casualties on my forces than full strength units) and block movement. Units in hasty move mode being allowed to enter the hexes of small units or bypass them would remove part of the issue (not their survivability, though).

[fvianello]

yes, thermal sight and night vision enhancer have something strange.

On the other hand, Soviet AI artillery is finally working as it should...NATO has to move out fast from detected position or be sure it's good enough to survive 1 hour of suppression fire.

[MikeGER]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Small units continue to be a big problem. If you want to advance fast, you'll rely on hasty move orders, but tiny remnants are very difficult to destroy currently (one or two element leftovers have inflicted more casualties on my forces than full strength units) and block movement. Units in hasty move mode being allowed to enter the hexes of small units or bypass them would remove part of the issue (not their survivability, though).

Comrade, did you know hasty units will switch to 'Move - Deliberate' orders when attacked by a ground unit or if an enemy unit is spotted.

so IMHO the solution would be (..somewhere in 2.05 or 2.06, i guess)
a Move-Deliberate-agressive order and a Move-Deliberate-cautious order,
(or as an atribute of a unit itself to act 'agressive' or 'cautious' that can be set by the player and the AI)

Move-Deliberate-Agressive would allow a unit to enter a enemy hex with a little delay (if the estimate! not the real) 'combat strength @ range "0" ' of the enemy in that hex is at least 3(5,7?) times weeker
because the enemy unit get killed faster in 'close-combat' then from 500m (...i assume that's how the FPRS game engine works?)

More precise would be:
the Move-Deliverate-agressive unit would first halt in the neighbouring hex (as it is now, and begin combat)
then switch to Assault order on iniciative (can be seen in the units info-pannel), and with the necessary realistic delay, assaults into the hex, all only if the estimat 'combat strength @ range "0"' of the enemy in the hex is at least 3(5,7?) times weeker then its own ....also the presence of enemies spotted nearby should be taken into account, if the local field comander of that unbit would dare to take the risk

[ComradeP]

Comrade, did you know hasty units will switch to 'Move - Deliberate' orders when attacked by a ground unit or if an enemy unit is spotted.

In terms of how it's shown to me, that only happens when the unit is attacked, but not always. When an enemy unit is spotted, the unit proceeds with a "2" on the counter instead of an "M". The "2" also sometimes stays in place when a unit is fired at by lighter weapons.

-

Soviet artillery also barely inflicts any losses in the open, maybe because most elements start as regular? I'm not sure what's going on. The off-map NATO artillery firing at my tanks has only knocked out one or two of them in an entire game.

The small unit/single element unit issue is very annoying for the moment. Like some of the issues in the Grogheads 2.03 version, I'm considering waiting for the next patch as I'm suffering lots of unnecessary and simply silly losses.

West German MG elements don't have a documented AP or HEAT rating. They've destroyed a handful of tanks in both scenario 1 and 2 at 1 hex range. It's not clear what's going on, and the game doesn't really make it clear what weapon it is that causes these losses. I'm guessing the Panzerfaust and other handheld AT weapons tend to have a range of 1 hex, which is OK I guess, but the MG units don't have documented AP or HEAT weapons.

A lot of the enjoyment I get from the game is currently quickly removed by single element infantry units inflicting more casualties than the enemy tanks or full strength infantry units. Often, the full unit is quickly turned into just a one or two element unit, but it's those tiny units that are very dangerous.

A single Gebirgsjaeger element in the open destroyed three BMP-2D's and two-three Mechanized Rifle squads (half of which from a unit in a town) all by itself, whilst the two Mechanized Rifle companies next to it couldn't hit it for over an hour. The Gebirgsjaeger squad was eventually destroyed by artillery. That's just silly, and it happens all the time.

It's like an infantry unit gets a large defensive bonus when it is decimated, which allows it to inflict casualties that are totally out of proportion to its size.

[MikeGER]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
A single Gebirgsjaeger element in the open destroyed three BMP-2D's and two-three Mechanized Rifle squads (half of which from a unit in a town) all by itself, whilst the two Mechanized Rifle companies next to it couldn't hit it for over an hour. The Gebirgsjaeger squad was eventually destroyed by artillery. That's just silly, and it happens all the time.

That were German Gebirgsjäger! - thats the reason [:'(] [:D][;)]
u just saw Iron Crosses and maybe a Knight's Cross growing up ....Upps, wrong time frame[;)]

[Lowlaner2012]

Hi ComradeP

Have you seen this situation with other NATO infantry or just the Gebirgsjäger?

Could it be because of the low quality of the Soviet conscripts and the elite Gebirgsjäger?

I'm not saying there is not a problem, I'm just thinking aloud

[ComradeP]

It also happened in the School Teacher campaign when my Leopards were firing at single Gremlin teams or HQ's. The Soviet Mechanized Infantry performs fine against full to half strength German infantry units, and then suddenly the German infantry units become very difficult to hit. I'm not sure what the quality of the German units was, but the mechanized infantry was elite (well, it is at the start of scenario 3, maybe it was veteran).

It's actually still my tanks that suffer the most, both in terms of casualties and slowdowns. Units in hasty move mode/"2" mode often move forwards only slowly if they spot a target near their destination.

[Lowlaner2012]

Hmm it does seem a bit strange, maybe one of the on target guys should have a look

Have you got a save game, I would like to have a look..

P.S what happens when the attacking tanks are set to assault the hex that the decimated infantry are defending?

Thanks

[ComradeP]

That makes no difference. In the third battle it's the same story all over again: the unit is decimated quickly by superior firepower, after which one or two elements become nearly invulnerable and destroy a number of my elements, stopping most of the assault in the process and allowing enemy artillery to target my tanks.

Thermals seem to work a bit better in the Red Hammer campaign, I can spot some units at a few hexes away with the recon units with thermals and the West Germans can also spot my units. Maybe the units are still calibrated for pre-2.03 data in that level? It might also just be coincidence.

Anyway, I'll wait for 2.04 before I continue playing, the small unit issue is just too much of a pain.