Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Commander - The Great War is the latest release in the popular and playable Commander series of historical strategy games. Gamers will enjoy a huge hex based campaign map that stretches from the USA in the west, Africa and Arabia to the south, Scandinavia to the north and the Urals to the east on a new engine that is more efficient and fully supports widescreen resolutions.
Commander – The Great War features a Grand Campaign covering the whole of World War I from the invasion of Belgium on August 5, 1914 to the Armistice on the 11th of November 1918 in addition to 16 different unit types including Infantry, Cavalry, Armoured Cars and Tanks, Artillery, Railroad Guns and Armoured Trains and more!

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kirk23
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by kirk23 »

Ok folks I don't want this Persia thing,detract from the 1.40 Open Beta, I'm reading everything carefully,and will make minor adjustments when it comes to final release off the patch.[;)]
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operating
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by operating »

Is level 16 trenching a thing of the past? Industrial warfare and Barbwire seem to produce around a level 3 trenching here in the spring of 1915. Or would there be some kind of delay per unit before it (trenching) takes effect? Such as; unit has to remain in place so many turns before the full (present tech) get's applied?

Can something be done with the Russian commanders? For they seem to enter the game ass-backwards... In other words, one general needs x-amount to become active, but is not allowed to enter the game (meets requirements), because the general that needs Hydro artillery, blocks his path. Is this something you can look into?
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kirk23
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by kirk23 »

I will look at adjusting the trenching levels,per tech advance,but I think trench level off 16 was too high in the past,can you tell me how you feel,troop losses are being handled later into the war,do you think Garrison & Infantry units need to be more durable,or were your concerns just early war because of low trench defense level?

As for the Commanders, and the tech restrictions,as you know I would love to remove these illogical blocks on availability,I will also fix the order in which commanders become available.[;)]
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ojnab_bob
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by ojnab_bob »

The trenches do seem a little weak/perhaps miscoded - it's 1915 in my game and I have developed barbed wire tech, but am still only getting a maximum of "entrenchment bonus - 3" and a "level 1 trench" graphics marker on the screen. The war is definitely very fluid because of that; perhaps a bit too fluid.
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kirk23
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by kirk23 »

Many thanks for feedback,I will adjust the entrenchment before final release,so that its more effective,which will in turn stop the game from being as fluid,it is a fine balancing act to get it just right.[;)]
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stockwellpete
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by stockwellpete »

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

ORIGINAL: kirk23

The Small Garrison is a special case as per Man Power, they represent the older population who come from there own City, you can think off them as Grandfathers protecting there families,while the younger male members of their family, is fighting on the front lines.[;)]

Perhaps they should only be able to move one hex from their own city? That would give some flexibility in defence but would prevent them joining wider offensives. i am still wondering if it would be better if these small garrisons had to be purchased/built by the players just like the other infantry units.

Any more thoughts on my query here, Kirk?
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kirk23
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by kirk23 »

Hi stockwellpete the Small Garrison at present time,is being used incorrectly by the AI, it was never my intention, that the Small Garrison would be any thing but City protection behind enemy lines,the next patch 1.50 is where a lot more work will hopefully be done on the AI.Speaking off which,I'm sure it was you who asked the question about Artillery movement up Mountains and through Swamps,with this patch it has been impossible to change this from happening,because it is hard coded, that units can always move at least one hex.I have spoken with the software wiz kid, and this will be looked at with the 1.50 patch. As for Small Garrisons being a production unit,space is at a premium on the production que,where I would hope to add more vital and interesting units to the game in future.[;)]
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stockwellpete
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by stockwellpete »

OK - and yes, it was me who mentioned artillery movement in swamps and up mountains. Another issue for me is what happens when a country surrenders. At the moment the new boundaries can be quite odd if a few units have broken through and taken some cities. What would be better is if more credible borders were restored - so, for example, if Romania was defeated it would lose some territory and cities but it would still have a compact shape and a few garrison units for defence; and Russia might lose the Ukraine or a large stretch of land in the Caucasus, but it wouldn't have a long "worm-hole" stretching into its territory (the small garrisons will stop this happening quite as much, I agree).

I will play for a couple of hours tomorrow but in my first SP game as the Central Powers I have found that Germany and Austria cannot generate enough PP surpluses to build enough units let alone increase shell production or buy more research labs. By the end of 1914 they are not even able to repair all their units each turn while the Ottomans seem to be the most dynamic nation of the Central Powers. So this feels wrong to me. Also, the British seem to be able to put huge numbers of troops in Egypt very quickly and again that doesn't quite feel right. The opening phase on the Western Front is excellent though and the eastern front is very mobile, which is also very good.

I like the changes very much but there is still some tweaking to do before 1.40 becomes official, in my view.
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operating
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by operating »

Even though Entente was having a rough start, the momentum seems to be shifting the other way, especially with Italy entering the war 25/May/15 turn 25/118, also, on this turn Bulgaria (turn # to enter 10) went from Black to Red. All Austria could muster was a tired 2 step garrison in Trento, nothing in Trieste, which is a pretty good indication Austria is already hurting PP wise, and with the recent loss prior of Cattaro and Sarajevo is poorer.

The German "Western Front" (from what I can see), consists of 4-5 small garrisons, 2 infantry, 3-4 garrisons and step 7 Austrian gun, against a far superior English/French force, mini breakthroughs have been happening regular now, don't expect the front will hold too much longer. It's evidence the Germans are suffering from lack of PP. None of their supply ships have reached home. Both BBs sunk, 4 out 5 cruisers sunk, 3 English BBs straddle in front of Cuxhaven port. (They lost Koeningsberg several turns ago, huge PP loss)

Have to wonder where the CP resources are? and how it was spent? Did they invest heavily in techs, ect.? The Germans are just starting to phase in level 3 infantry, against my level 2s. Austria seems to backing off the Eastern Front to meet it's new threat Italy.

Does the AI have the ability to dump certain Techs/labs to stay solvent? A lot of times I dump armor labs after getting armored cars. Almost never keep Austrian Naval tech labs, I guess it's a matter of strategy.

I'll tell ya one thing, invested in Russian bombers and fighters early on, they have been a "God send"....
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stockwellpete
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by stockwellpete »

Belgian troops should stay in Belgium, not rotate down into France.
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operating
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by operating »

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

Belgian troops should stay in Belgium, not rotate down into France.

Don't know what you are getting at? At present only have 1 Belgian garrison and 1 armored car, both (in country) too weak for front line action, doubled up on their ground troop lab, which leaves Belgium with 1 PP a turn to spare.

Historically, I do not know the story, but in this game, when the Entente break open the CP Western Front, I really don't think it's an issue to consider, I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I would think the Belgians would like to get their pound of flesh and revenge for being invaded.

One other thought; in 1915 and later scenarios, as a last resort do I move Belgians south. First off, unless the unit desperately needed repair. Secondly, their NM takes a severe hit, often knocked down to 7%, really close to being a forced NM surrender, which effects all Entente nations, especially Russia and Serbia, if it is still alive. Thirdly, it might effect their tech development (which at this point is not viewable).
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stockwellpete
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by stockwellpete »

Historically, Belgian troops stayed in Belgium between 1914 and 1918. To reproduce this in the game would actually stop the French sending lots of replacements into Belgium because the hexes would be occupied by Belgian units. And so it would increase the chances of re-creating what actually happened in 1914 (Aisne, Marne, race to the sea etc).
IvanGrozni
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by IvanGrozni »

If we want the game to keep some level of historical accuracy, I suggest keeping the Persian army out of the conflict.
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operating
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by operating »

One of the things I hear and see; Is the "potential" of this game. Perhaps it might someday include scenarios of different types as you suggest (historical, hypothetical, or some for the pure fun of it), all would be welcome to me.

However, for now, I'd rather help those who provide this (in my words) entertainment, I'm no computer wiz-kid, I'm just someone who really enjoys the game (and someone who devilishly likes to stick a "Hot Poker" into certain issues about the game), as well as anybody else who is in to it..

PS; This game has taught me a lot about WW1, including your insights....
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operating
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by operating »

ORIGINAL: operating

The attacking AI ground troops, seem to have exceptional (favorable) killing ratios, even when my troops have not moved and even have slight trenching (2-3 no barbwire yet). Trenching overall has been less (step lower, maybe more) than prior versions. It is, what it is for now.
I've learned to accept the killing ratios and the trenching, for it works both ways. A player has to pay special attention to the owning (your) sides' "Combat Prognosis Window", to weigh up the consequences, a combined arms attack almost always has a favorable outcome compared to being just a punching bag for the other side.

Turks put so much effort into trying to capture Sarikamish and the Suez canal, they fail to protect Constanopol, troop transported out of Savasterpol to offshore the Turk Capital, supported by Russian cruiser. On the next turn "nobody showed up to protect it", never saw this in any prior games!

Sept. 2/15 turn 32/118; The CP Western Front has completely disintegrated, the AI's use of small garrisons as front line troops has completely backfired, don't expect to see this in future patches.

Ramping up techs changes the play dramatically, the trenching issue, almost becomes irrelevant. For sure; techs are slower to develop than prior versions. Cavalry & armored cars are "king" on the open plains of Germany, it's something to plan ahead for, when the opportunity arises.
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stockwellpete
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by stockwellpete »

I played the big campaign today as Central Powers in single player (average level). The Central Powers had effectively lost the war by the middle of 1915. The western front was collapsing and the Russians were threatening both Konigsberg and Berlin. The Turks were desperately defending Jerusalem. Only success for CP's was that Serbia surrendered. Both German and Austrian navies did very well but both countries unable to generate sufficient PP to modernise units, build sufficient armies or research labs or increase shell production. Still very lop-sided in my opinion.
ojnab_bob
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by ojnab_bob »

Just as a counterpoint, I am at the end of 1915 in my 1.4.1 CP single player game (also on average), and I've occupied all of France, Serbia and the upper half of Italy, and am in front of Brest-Litovsk with 8 subs in the Atlantic (which unfortunately brought the US into the war). My general observations/opinions, which you certainly should take with a grain of salt:

1. I think Germany's PP is about right, honestly - the CP player should always have to make a decision on where to spend scarce resources; in 1.4.1 I have enough PP to carry labs, a 14-infantry army and plenty of navy as the Germans. Then again, I was able to knock France out by the end of 1914, eliminating one major front, so this may be a problem of small sample size.

2. Enjoying how the US came in quickly when I sank every British convoy for about a 6-month period.

3. France didn't surrender even when I took all of the mainland by early 1915 - those Corsicans and pied noirs are a stubborn lot.

4. Entrenchment effects seem too light, as described earlier. Technology is a touch too slow - I have 2 labs in ground technology, and despite focusing on steel helmet, I'm still not there at the end of 1915.

5. The Turks seem to have endless PP! I am fielding huge armies in the Sinai and on the Armenian border. No sick man of Europe here... unlike the Austrians, which generally are lucky to hold their own until the Germans can save their bacon on any relevant front. So that part is playing out as it should, anyway...

6. The management improvements are so expensive that I haven't even considered upgrading them; but it's no problem, as 1914 German shell production of 9 is more than enough if you're only fielding 1-2 artillery units intermittently.

I've enjoyed the patch! Thanks for your hard work.
ojnab_bob
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by ojnab_bob »

Two other observations -

7. Sort of enjoying the small garrisons getting plugged into the front by the AI - makes for more contiguous frontlines in the East. I've done the same, and just think of them as "Quality 3 troops". They can hold you up for a turn or two, anyway, and if you want to reinforce them you are bleeding precious manpower.

8. German subs may be a touch cheap at only 1 PP per turn - at 20 PP and 1 PP/turn, you can't afford not to carry an armada of them! If they each can sink 3-4 points of merchant convoy over a 25 turn period, which is quite do-able, they've effectively paid for themselves. 2 PP may be too expensive for upkeep, though - any way to code 1.5?
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by operating »

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

I played the big campaign today as Central Powers in single player (average level). The Central Powers had effectively lost the war by the middle of 1915. The western front was collapsing and the Russians were threatening both Konigsberg and Berlin. The Turks were desperately defending Jerusalem. Only success for CP's was that Serbia surrendered. Both German and Austrian navies did very well but both countries unable to generate sufficient PP to modernise units, build sufficient armies or research labs or increase shell production. Still very lop-sided in my opinion.

Have not tried CP 1914 yet, and have "NO doubt", what you say is true. Can you imagine trying to play CP in MP, with this beta; No way!

It's 14 Oct. 1915, turn 35/118, CP is in shambles throughout Europe, I mean, "it's bad", I actually feel sorry for the CP. The Turks have power, but just don't seem to be all that cohesive, they have a gun, but have not pulled the trigger on it yet (?). Their Cruiser attacks French BB, minor success, dumb idea, sunk afterwards.

The bottom line is this; I can appreciate the Turk strength, but the Germans and probably the Austrians too, need more in the Bank to compete in this Beta. They did not stand a chance once Italy entered the war and with French and English troops supporting Serbia. Italian PP is down from previous versions.

Let me ask you this: "Did you try to break the North Sea Blockade?"
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stockwellpete
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RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1

Post by stockwellpete »

ORIGINAL: operating

Let me ask you this: "Did you try to break the North Sea Blockade?"

No, most of the German navy was in the Baltic dealing with the Russian and British subs and fleet. The Swedish convoys were the only thing giving me PP's to spend.
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