OT - What is a fleet?

[decaro]

From BBC news:

"Iranian warships in the Atlantic Ocean are to sail close to US maritime borders for the first time, a senior naval commander has said.

"Iranian media quoted Adm Afshin Rezayee Haddad as saying the deployment was a response to US vessels in the Gulf.

"The fleet consists of a destroyer and a helicopter-carrying supply ship ..."


So just two ships make a fleet? The US Fifth Fleet has about 5,000 personnel!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26105749

[zuluhour]

They are lucky the USCG is close by...........

[wdolson]

In the game or propaganda, you play up what you have, even if it isn't much.

Iran is exaggerating even claiming two ships. Their largest warship is a 1500 ton frigate. It's range is so short the other ship has to be along to keep it fueled.

Bill

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


So just two ships make a fleet?

Yes

fleet
n.
1. A number of warships operating together under one command.

2. A group of vessels or vehicles, such as taxicabs or fishing boats, owned or operated as a unit.

[danlongman]

This could be very big for them. If they can publish a picture of an Iranian warship operating in the western hemisphere it will
make for better propaganda than their fake jet and V-1 bomb. As long as there are no liens on the ship. Somebody lost a warship
a little while ago when they stopped for gas and got hit by the repo-men. Kind of hard to imagine why these people who see themselves
as being relentlessly picked on by the UK and USA would become bad tempered at USN and other ships cruising up and down the Persian Gulf
and making ugly infidel waves on their (modestly attired) beaches for the last 30 or 40 years.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Joe D.


So just two ships make a fleet?

Yes

fleet
n.
1. A number of warships operating together under one command.

2. A group of vessels or vehicles, such as taxicabs or fishing boats, owned or operated as a unit.

Since a destroyer and its supply ship aren't both warships, we're left with seagoing taxicabs.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

In the game or propaganda, you play up what you have, even if it isn't much ...

(CNN) -- The Iranians are coming! The Iranians are coming!

Well, OK, maybe not. But if a couple of vessels flying the colors of the Islamic republic do appear off American shores sometime soon, don't panic. Even if it happens -- something U.S. officials have called into question -- the point of any such voyage appears to be to make a public-relations splash.

"What this does is, to people who don't know anything about sea power, which is a fairly substantial number of people in the developing world, it looks like a major gesture," U.S. military analyst Anthony Cordesman told CNN. "Within Iran's sort of politics, it follows a long theme of Republican Guard and other statements that Iran can defeat the United States."

But Cordesman, who holds the Burke Chair in Strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the reported Iranian flotilla -- led by an aging frigate the U.S. Navy once nearly sunk -- poses no risk to the world's biggest naval power.

"Deploying a military museum is not going to threaten to the United States ..."

[crsutton]

Actually we should just invite them to pay a port visit to New York or Norfolk and have an open house. It would be a good gesture and might help melt some of the ice between the two nations.

[jmalter]

crsutton has it right. A port call, w/ proper exchange of 'sovereign honors' on their arrival/departure, a 'semi-official' visit to their flagship by a combined naval/civilian delegation, a quiet offer to discreetly assist w/ any needed repairs - that's the best way forward

We should receive them w/ proper courtesy, & not assume they're gonna shoot down any air-traffic they can get a lock on.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

crsutton has it right. A port call, w/ proper exchange of 'sovereign honors' on their arrival/departure, a 'semi-official' visit to their flagship ...

The same "aging frigate the U.S. Navy once nearly sunk"?
That will be awkward.

[pmelheck1]

I'm sure their hoping for a provocative gesture and a friendly invite as indicated above would squash the posturing but I also think they wouldn't accept it if offered but would be great if they did. I just hope they don't have orders to do something to provoke such a gesture. To me it's just chest thumping as a AO with an FF in tow is hardly a credible threat. If they do something nonviolent to provoke the navy hopefully my brothers in the Navy just snicker and continue on their way.

[pmelheck1]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: jmalter

crsutton has it right. A port call, w/ proper exchange of 'sovereign honors' on their arrival/departure, a 'semi-official' visit to their flagship ...

The same "aging frigate the U.S. Navy once nearly sunk"?
That will be awkward.

I don't think it would be awkward. We didn't nearly sink the Japanese Navy we did sink it and I wouldn't find visits by Japanese warships awkward but rather the past that we need to move on from.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Actually we should just invite them to pay a port visit to New York or Norfolk and have an open house. It would be a good gesture and might help melt some of the ice between the two nations.

Probably unrealistic for countries without 'normalized' diplomatic relations to preface normal relations by spontaneous port call of a man-o-war. Nice thoughts, but such exchanges are a ways down the 'chain' of international relations yet.

ETA: I've gotta believe that there's an USN SSN or two tracking that 'fleet' with bated breath. There's gotta be a 688i or Virginia class driver slavering somewhere.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: jmalter

crsutton has it right. A port call, w/ proper exchange of 'sovereign honors' on their arrival/departure, a 'semi-official' visit to their flagship ...

The same "aging frigate the U.S. Navy once nearly sunk"?
That will be awkward.

There have been far more awkward situations. As mullk has said, I doubt it would be any more awkward than a Japanese warship calling in at Hawaii.

ORIGINAL: mullk
To me it's just chest thumping as a AO with an FF in tow is hardly a credible threat...

That's all it is. It's in the interest of the US to keep the Iranian Navy stuck in the Persian Gulf, and it's in the Iranian interest to start running operations outwith it, even if the effect is insignificant.

[Feltan]

I don't want those damn ships anywhere near a US port.

It's not that the gesture is inappropriate, but rather why needlessly incur the risk of a "Remember the Maine!" incident. I wouldn't put it past them to blow up their own ship just to provoke things.

Regards,
Feltan

[Jorge_Stanbury]

As long as they remain in international waters, they can spend as much oil (they have plenty ) as they want, and also make some port of call visits to their allies in Havana or Caracas.

Letting them in? no way, 1st of all, there has been no diplomatic relations since the Shah era. If you don't even exchange diplomats or trade/ cultural representatives with a country, then, there is no point in inviting their navy.

+ we are talking a hostile regime under major economic sanctions for funding/ harboring terrorist organizations and building nuclear weapons.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Letting them in? no way, 1st of all, there has been no diplomatic relations since the Shah era. If you don't even exchange diplomats or trade/ cultural representatives with a country, then, there is no point in inviting their navy.

+ we are talking a hostile regime under major economic sanctions for funding/ harboring terrorist organizations and building nuclear weapons.

Ever considered that the fact that the Shah was seen as a puppet of America might have had something to do with the latter? Let alone support their regional nemesis in a full-out war...

Also, the Iranian government is only "hostile" so far as the need for a big external threat is needed to solve some pretty big internal issues, along with the legitimate strategic concern of having the big bad USA sail warships along offshore.

International relations is never one dimensional.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Regardless of who is right or wrong, who is the terrorist/ freedom fighter,

there is a simple fact that relations are not at a point as to exchange navy visits. maybe they can start with ping-pong

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Regardless of who is right or wrong, who is the terrorist/ freedom fighter,

there is a simple fact that relations are not at a point as to exchange navy visits. maybe they can start with ping-pong

Which turned the big bad boogeyman PRC in to America's largest trading partner!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

That is correct, but remember both the PRC and the USA saw the resumption of diplomatic relationship as highly desirable, as this unbalanced their greatest foe, the USSR.

I don't think there is that same desire to improve relationships, or any geopolitical gain for either countries. Simply too much disagreement, big domestic political nightmares and very little to gain by improving relations.