Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

Moderators: WildCatNL, cbelva, IronManBeta, CapnDarwin, IronMikeGolf, Mad Russian

Chicharito19
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:41 pm

Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by Chicharito19 »

Well, I've been playing the demos for both Command Ops and Flashpoint and can't seem to make up my mind. I like both...but can't get both at this time.

One thing I want to learn from playing these sims is about tactics both offensively and defensively. I don't necessarily WANT to micromanage, but will do so if the need arises. So I do like that nature of Command Ops.

But at the same time I've played more of the Flashpoint demo...it's something about it. It's very intense, but also tiring because of it. heheeh I am becoming more comfortable with it though.

I hope its appropriate to ask what your thoughts are on these two fine games. Ultimately it is my choice, but I'd like some perspectives if you don't mind. Thanx for your help.
CaptCarnage
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:59 am

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CaptCarnage »

I have both. Couldnt resist.
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
User avatar
z1812
Posts: 1575
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:45 pm

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by z1812 »

It seems you have a difficult choice to make. If you find yourself playing one demo more than another, then you may have already made your decision.
User avatar
parmenio
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:02 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by parmenio »

I also have both.

Two of the best games, I've ever paid money for. Definitely in my Top 10 of all-time.

Command Ops has no PBEM and uses Pausable Continuous Time rather than any turn-based design.

They seem to have development teams who share a similar ethos - massive attention to detail and a desire to not release stuff until it's ready to go (I know that frustrates some but I'd rather the patch I got worked)

Currently differentiated by the periods of warfare they address - so that may be an issue for you but what I would say is that I generally don't have as much interest in modern warfare as I do for WWII (or Napoleonics for that matter) and I bought this with no hesitation at all and haven't regretted it - I think the price is excellent value for money. I splurged a lot more on WITE and haven't played it in months.


Andy Edmiston
WDS Lead Programmer
CiniKo
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:24 am
Contact:

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CiniKo »

From my point of view I chose FC:RS because:

I was bored sim on Second World War subject,
bored of click fest ala Wargame Airbattle with a bad AI in single player.
Very interested, instead in the Cold War and was looking for a sim very quick to learn, but massive attention to details that was challenging.

At the end I found and I bought this. Best buy 2013.

LuCa



Werewolf13
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:11 pm

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by Werewolf13 »

Well, I've been playing the demos for both Command Ops and Flashpoint and can't seem to make up my mind. I like both...but can't get both at this time.

I too have both. Both are fun to play. Different, very different time periods covered so the 1st thing you need to consider is which time period is more to your liking, more interesting, more challenging to you.

After that - well.

Probably not the right forum to say this but as much fun as Red Storm is Command Ops is a way more mature product and IMO gets way more right than FPC:RS does. CO is fought on larger maps with more types of terrain, more variance in elevations and at a higher resolution than RS (100 yds CO vs 500 yds RS). CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits.

RS requires a more hands on approach to play than CO does and depending on your play style that may or may not be a plus.

CO has many more scenarios available in the base game than RS and has two DLC expansions currently available with a major upgrade coming soon (well - at least that's what they claim - I'll be surprised if we see it before July but more likely we won't see it before next year). But as I stated before CO is a much more mature product than RS.

I imagine - hope - that eventually RS too will be a mature product that does what it is meant to do and does it as well as CO does.

Until that day comes - and since the OP asked - pesonally my recommendation would be to go with Command Ops.
Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress
User avatar
Mad Russian
Posts: 13255
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:29 pm
Location: Texas

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

Probably not the right forum to say this but as much fun as Red Storm is Command Ops is a way more mature product and IMO gets way more right than FPC:RS does.

This is exactly the right forum to say this. We agree that FPC:RS is a new product. We are working on changes and features as we go. That's why we have a wish list. You input would be good on that thread as well.

As far as content is concerned I've already created 2 campaigns and 4 scenarios since the release with more on the way. All of which was, or will be, free to you. Mods are being created, content is being added, the game is being tweaked. As you said, all of that takes time, and a willingness of the developers to do it.

One of your comments is concerning scale. WWII is a much reduced scale compared to WWIII. The ranges and weaponry is different. When we take FPC to a WWII setting our scale will be smaller as well. Do they plan on expanding Command Ops to a modern setting?

Thanks for voicing your opinion, we appreciate it.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9241
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CapnDarwin »

Werewolf1326 sums it up well, but I will take exception to the following: CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits. I'll say we both model all of the relevant units. They have supply units by virtue of the scale, but we have helicopters. [:D] Again with platforms and weapons we both represent the vast majority of equipment the forces would have had or used. We model, but don't display a number of soft factors that are in the data and the game. Looking at a screen shot of CO we both cover the same factors, in some cases with different names. Again I think both games cover what is needed for scale and result.

My very biased 2 cents. [:D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
demiller
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:38 pm

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by demiller »

I play both of these games extensively. IMHO these are two of the absolute "must have" games if you're a modern computer wargamer. Both demonstrate how moving from board games to the computer can allow a level of simulation of the commander's role that is far more sophisticated and realistic than really just about anything else. Regardless of which you get first, I would recommend planning for how to get both; you won't be sorry you did.
AKA panzerde
Chicharito19
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:41 pm

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by Chicharito19 »

Thank you all for your answers. I appreciate it.
CaptCarnage
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:59 am

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CaptCarnage »

Flashpoint is faster-paced and is somehow more satisfactory because of it.
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
daferg
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:09 pm

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by daferg »

I was in the same boat as you about two weeks ago deciding between those two titles. I, obviously, chose Flashpoint Campaigns and I don't regret it. My only complaint is there should be warning on the intro screen. "This game is addictive and may cause lack of sleep". I told myself one more turn a little after midnight and here it is 0418. I did some quick math and if I finish this scenario I'm on and go to bed, I'll get about an hour of sleep before my kids wake me up at 0700 for breakfast. Don't say I didn't warn you. [:D]
CaptCarnage
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:59 am

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CaptCarnage »

That's it - Flashpoint is just more addictive.
In Command Ops you set out your orders and you watch things progress - get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process. There are intense moments for sure, and it is more detailed I think but it is just less addictive.

Flashpoint just has that "terrible" green glowing start button. It just wants to be pressed.
You set your orders, hit start and then just watch the awesomeness unfold. And it can go well, you just want to set more orders and finish this scenario - or it can go wrong and you want to adjust and try to save the situation. More often than not I have found myself promising I would go to bed when this next turn has been played out - and then braking that promise until the scenario has finished.
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
User avatar
BletchleyGeek
Posts: 4458
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by BletchleyGeek »

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Werewolf1326 sums it up well, but I will take exception to the following: CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits. I'll say we both model all of the relevant units. They have supply units by virtue of the scale, but we have helicopters. [:D] Again with platforms and weapons we both represent the vast majority of equipment the forces would have had or used. We model, but don't display a number of soft factors that are in the data and the game. Looking at a screen shot of CO we both cover the same factors, in some cases with different names. Again I think both games cover what is needed for scale and result.

My very biased 2 cents. [:D]

Not so biased mate. FP is truly excellent, and I salute you!

And Command Ops isn't a "spectator sports" kind of experience. With all due respect: that's a very superficial assessment which won't stand a close look. Doing that thing - "get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process" - will end up with the AI or a human pooin' into your OODA loop [;)]

Just my very biased two OZ dollar cents [;)]
CaptCarnage
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:59 am

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CaptCarnage »

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Werewolf1326 sums it up well, but I will take exception to the following: CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits. I'll say we both model all of the relevant units. They have supply units by virtue of the scale, but we have helicopters. [:D] Again with platforms and weapons we both represent the vast majority of equipment the forces would have had or used. We model, but don't display a number of soft factors that are in the data and the game. Looking at a screen shot of CO we both cover the same factors, in some cases with different names. Again I think both games cover what is needed for scale and result.

My very biased 2 cents. [:D]

Not so biased mate. FP is truly excellent, and I salute you!

And Command Ops isn't a "spectator sports" kind of experience. With all due respect: that's a very superficial assessment which won't stand a close look. Doing that thing - "get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process" - will end up with the AI or a human pooin' into your OODA loop [;)]

Just my very biased two OZ dollar cents [;)]

Well good sir, why on earth did they implement a time advance button then? :) To shorten your OODA on purpose as a sort of self-flaggelation? No mate, you can get a cup of coffee if you want. The pace is much slower. I won many a battle whilst enjoying the sweet aroma of arabesque beans.
After all, a Form Up Time of 20 minutes actually takes 20 real minutes and with the order delay and easily overloaded staff you know you shouldn't respond to every twitch on the battlefield.

Of course FPRS is "slow" as you can even walk your doggie when you don't press that start button, but somehow you feel that doggie needs to hold up because you will do just one turn more...
"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by wodin »

The two games really can't be compared..the only real element that is the same is it's a PC wargame and it's 2D.

Both game are outstanding and my two favourite wargames.
User avatar
cbelva
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:11 pm
Location: Nevada USA

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by cbelva »

I hate to say it, but I agree with wodin[:D]. They are both very good wargames. They are both very different from each other but what they do they do well. Commands Ops has been out for quite a few years (I think the first edition came out over 10 years ago). FPC has been out for only a few months. Commands Ops has grown up quite well and is still growing. FPC is still in its adolescent stage and has lots of room to grow.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9241
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CapnDarwin »

Both are excellent game. Red Storm does give you that action feel by the scale of the game. CO has some down time as you maneuver larger forces to fight battles that are basically at the size of Red Storm. In CO you have to worry about supply and operations are over days. WE really like the crew at Panther games and there games are detailed and fun to play. The choice is really do you want operational level or grand tactical or do you want WW2 or WW3. Either way I believe you will enjoy the game.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
User avatar
CapnDarwin
Posts: 9241
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by CapnDarwin »

I have to say I finding it interesting that a number of people have mentioned getting into the "just one more turn" mode while playing. For a pure wargame I think that is pretty cool and somewhat unique. Now, if you haven't gone to the Grogheads site and voted for us as best wargame (digital) please do. [:D]Shameless plug[:D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
Chicharito19
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:41 pm

RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

Post by Chicharito19 »

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh

That's it - Flashpoint is just more addictive.
In Command Ops you set out your orders and you watch things progress - get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process. There are intense moments for sure, and it is more detailed I think but it is just less addictive.

Flashpoint just has that "terrible" green glowing start button. It just wants to be pressed.
You set your orders, hit start and then just watch the awesomeness unfold. And it can go well, you just want to set more orders and finish this scenario - or it can go wrong and you want to adjust and try to save the situation. More often than not I have found myself promising I would go to bed when this next turn has been played out - and then braking that promise until the scenario has finished.

Golly...you've got it bad. I believe there are folks who have gone to school to help you overcome some of these issues you've listed above. It may take a 12 step process.[:D][:D][:D]

I will keep you in my thoughts.
Post Reply

Return to “Flashpoint Campaigns Classic”