World in Flames Download Version Now Available

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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paulderynck
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by paulderynck »

By your logic everyone who bought the game before the digital download only was offered - got a $10 discount. Hooray for us.

And Eric explained why they changed the policy. "We honestly feel the hardbound manuals are a key part of the game - adding them in actually decreases our margin per copy as we did not increase the planned price once we made the decision to print the manuals at this quality level, but we feel that they are necessary to the game."

Paul
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

So instead of waiting for having the perfect game in 2 years (PBEM, AI, ...), they decided to release it now. And some of you would prefer they have waited a bit more.

So?

1) If you are like those who wanted it now: buy it now.
2) If you are like those who wanted them to wait until AI & PBEM was ready: wait until they are ready.

Shouldn't everybody be happy?

I would have no issue with that,...but I would expect to pay accordingly. Part of the game delivered should equal part of the price....not the highest price ever at Matrix.
warspite1

But its not your company. Its not for you to set the price and say what it should or shouldn't be. That is Matrix's job. As consumers we can then choose to pay said price or walk.

To you, the price is not worth it, and that's fine, no problem, that's your choice. Matrix on the other hand, think they have the price right.

Matrix have brought a game out that does not have many of the usual features - but are charging a premium price. A great many of us think its worth that price and we bought (and will pay more for more later) - many it seems do not and walked. Right can we move on now?
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Aurelian
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.
The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.
He's looking for an answer from Matrix Games - like an official answer - not an answer from some pseudo spokesman or self assigned forum policeman.

He's entitled to ask - you can answer if you want, but he can choose to ignore your answer because he wants to know officially.

And as he said - the people who were willing to pay the same price without the books were not spokespeople for everyone. You probably only saw those answers in those threads because the rest couldn't be arsed to say that wasn't acceptable to them because of the hostility in this place.

If you don't like the "whining" and "carping" and "complaining" then don't read. Go play the game. And those terms used themselves are inflammatory.

HTF did you think this thread was going to go with that statement?
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ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone, the decision to go with a physical only release was made a while ago and the rationale was explained in my earlier posts. We honestly feel the hardbound manuals are a key part of the game - adding them in actually decreases our margin per copy as we did not increase the planned price once we made the decision to print the manuals at this quality level, but we feel that they are necessary to the game. We tried to get the shipping costs down as much as possible, but until our European warehouse re-opens, we were unable to get them down further outside the US given the weight and size of the package. We were not happy with the shipping costs either. The only option I can offer right now is to wait until later in Q1 2014 when the European warehouse opens as that should reduce shipping costs to Europe and remove the risk of a customs duty. Per the announcement we posted, our best guess on that is February/March.

There is your answer. Whether you accept it or not is on you.

Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
Aurelian
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

So instead of waiting for having the perfect game in 2 years (PBEM, AI, ...), they decided to release it now. And some of you would prefer they have waited a bit more.

So?

1) If you are like those who wanted it now: buy it now.
2) If you are like those who wanted them to wait until AI & PBEM was ready: wait until they are ready.

Shouldn't everybody be happy?

I would have no issue with that,...but I would expect to pay accordingly. Part of the game delivered should equal part of the price....not the highest price ever at Matrix.
warspite1

But its not your company. Its not for you to set the price and say what it should or shouldn't be. That is Matrix's job. As consumers we can then choose to pay said price or walk.

To you, the price is not worth it, and that's fine, no problem, that's your choice. Matrix on the other hand, think they have the price right.

Matrix have brought a game out that does not have many of the usual features - but are charging a premium price. A great many of us think its worth that price and we bought (and will pay more for more later) - many it seems do not and walked. Right can we move on now?

Stop making sense [:D]
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
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JudgeDredd
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by JudgeDredd »

He wasn't setting the price. He was asking why there seemed to be a change in pricing policy for this game compared to all others offered by Matrix

He also stated in post #77
What exactly is your objection to the question being asked
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IKerensky
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by IKerensky »

So they got trapped by their idea to force sell the books on people.

Game should have been sold 90$, 120$ with book.
They force the book into the package and print them, but made a gesture to put a price of 100$.

Now they are trapped and cant lower the price of the digital dowload edition without raising the physical edition up to 125$.

As simple as that.

I am also convinced that they think that including books was mandatory because no one will pay 100$ for a computer games without shinies added to it.
Mike Parker
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Mike Parker »

ORIGINAL: KERENSKY

So they got trapped by their idea to force sell the books on people.

Game should have been sold 90$, 120$ with book.
They force the book into the package and print them, but made a gesture to put a price of 100$.

Now they are trapped and cant lower the price of the digital dowload edition without raising the physical edition up to 125$.

As simple as that.

I am also convinced that they think that including books was mandatory because no one will pay 100$ for a computer games without shinies added to it.
Possible however unlikely in my thought.

I hope I don't make anyone mad with this, its not my intent. Here is what I THINK happened, and I make a point I have no inside track into the mind of Matrix or ADG.

Harry Rowland and Matrix agreed to a price point for MWIF or probably more likely a minimum that allowed ADG to not overly canibalize the sales of the board game. ADG still wants to sell the board game version, and there is serious risk that MWIF at too low a price point would cause folks that might be interested in the board game to instead say "Well I will buy the computer version and see". I would guess that Matrix is somewhat constrained by protocols negotiated with ADG on the price of MWIF. I would also guess that including the books was also likely negotiated as a link back towards the physical boardgame. One could take the RAC buy the counters use the full scale unified map with MWIF and play the game quite easily actually (well with a huge table but WIF has always required a huge table for the full game).

I would guess one reason it took a bit to come up with a DD version was they had to go back into negotiations with ADG to make sure everything was kosher with a DD version as long as it did not erode the price point.

I also don't think IF what I say is true that the details will be revealed, they don't need to be at all, but to my mind such a situation seems prudent for both sides.

Lastly I re-iterate I don't know anything special I am neither an ADG nor Matrix insider, this is just my best guess. In simple terms Matrix wants to sell MWIF Harry wants to sell boardgames and they both hope with proper constraints that the other side will generate interest in their side!
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Toby42 »

I just don't understand all of the fuss and hostility? If you don't like the deal, don't buy. If you can't afford it, don't buy. Matrix doesn't have to justify their business decisions to anyone! When it's all said and done, it's just s game! And yes I did purchase when it first came out! Am I happy with it, No. But I'm an adult and I made my decision, so I live with it....
Tony
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Scott_WAR »

LOL. I knew the answer. I could have found and posted it myself. But then everybody wouldn't get to see certain individuals,...who also knew the answer already.....instead of answering the very simple question that others have already started asking as well.....they throw a tantrum about how DARE anyone ask a company a question about one of their products. Nevermind that EVERY company in the world will take and answer questions about their products.
ORIGINAL: Treale

I just don't understand all of the fuss and hostility? If you don't like the deal, don't buy. If you can't afford it, don't buy. Matrix doesn't have to justify their business decisions to anyone! When it's all said and done, it's just s game! And yes I did purchase when it first came out! Am I happy with it, No. But I'm an adult and I made my decision, so I live with it....

I don't understand why you are making such a fuss and being so hostile to people asking a simple question either. I find it funny you ask why all the fuss and hostility when you are one of the main ones making a fuss and being hostile.
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: KERENSKY

So they got trapped by their idea to force sell the books on people.

Game should have been sold 90$, 120$ with book.
They force the book into the package and print them, but made a gesture to put a price of 100$.

Now they are trapped and cant lower the price of the digital dowload edition without raising the physical edition up to 125$.

As simple as that.

I am also convinced that they think that including books was mandatory because no one will pay 100$ for a computer games without shinies added to it.
warspite1

And this is why peeps get so frustrated with this...

Exactly how do you deduce that - and said with such certainty? You are privvy to the economics of this deal? Who gets paid what? How much ADG earn? How much Steve get's etc? You know all that do you such that you can confidently state what Matrix should sell for?

Why can't they lower the price of the Digital download without increasing the physical edition cost? Where did that come from?

And as for your last statement - well you are easily convinced wrongly. People have bought at $100 without the books and maps. I would have bought the game without - the
books and maps were a great bonus but I paid for the GAME.

Edit: Spelling
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

LOL. I knew the answer. I could have found and posted it myself. But then everybody wouldn't get to see certain individuals,...who also knew the answer already.....instead of answering the very simple question that others have already started asking as well.....they throw a tantrum about how DARE anyone ask a company a question about one of their products. Nevermind that EVERY company in the world will take and answer questions about their products.
ORIGINAL: Treale

I just don't understand all of the fuss and hostility? If you don't like the deal, don't buy. If you can't afford it, don't buy. Matrix doesn't have to justify their business decisions to anyone! When it's all said and done, it's just s game! And yes I did purchase when it first came out! Am I happy with it, No. But I'm an adult and I made my decision, so I live with it....

I don't understand why you are making such a fuss and being so hostile to people asking a simple question either. I find it funny you ask why all the fuss and hostility when you are one of the main ones making a fuss and being hostile.
warspite1

So you were just trolling then?
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Scott_WAR »

ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: KERENSKY

So they got trapped by their idea to force sell the books on people.

Game should have been sold 90$, 120$ with book.
They force the book into the package and print them, but made a gesture to put a price of 100$.

Now they are trapped and cant lower the price of the digital dowload edition without raising the physical edition up to 125$.

As simple as that.

I am also convinced that they think that including books was mandatory because no one will pay 100$ for a computer games without shinies added to it.
warspite1

And this is why peeps get so frustrated with this...

Exactly how do you deduce that - and said with such certainty? You are privvy to the economics of this deal? Who gets paid what? How much ADG earn? How much Steve get's etc? You know all that do you such that you can confidently state what Matrix should sell for?

Why can't they lower the price of the Digital download without increasing the physical edition cost? Where did that come from?

And as for your last statement - well you are easily convinced wrongly. People have bought at $100 without the books and maps. I would have bought the game without - the
books and maps were a great bonus but I paid for the GAME.

Edit: Spelling

I think Kerensky was referring to 'most' gamers wont pay $100 without shinies,.... and we come back to the VERY OLD debate------- the truth of the matter is 'most' people wont even buy this game at $20. Which is why its considered a niche market,...which is why the prices have to be higher than usual to make it possible to make the games to begin with......but letting your old catalog sit and not making any money off of it at all when you could reduce the prices on a lot of those old titles and make money off of them FOR NOTHING.....which could help the overall finances of the company....which means they could lower prices on newer games as well.....sell a few more copies of them....attracting a few new customers who may buy other new titles or some of the old 'cheaper' titles (and will also help get new customers by the old tried and true word of mouth method)....further improving the finances of the company.....and on and on...

But that's an old debate......Matrix maintains they aren't going to change from what has worked for them for so long (but don't ask why they are doing it different here!!!!!).

So we are left with the self fulfilling prophecy of high prices and niche market.
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Scott_WAR »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

LOL. I knew the answer. I could have found and posted it myself. But then everybody wouldn't get to see certain individuals,...who also knew the answer already.....instead of answering the very simple question that others have already started asking as well.....they throw a tantrum about how DARE anyone ask a company a question about one of their products. Nevermind that EVERY company in the world will take and answer questions about their products.
ORIGINAL: Treale

I just don't understand all of the fuss and hostility? If you don't like the deal, don't buy. If you can't afford it, don't buy. Matrix doesn't have to justify their business decisions to anyone! When it's all said and done, it's just s game! And yes I did purchase when it first came out! Am I happy with it, No. But I'm an adult and I made my decision, so I live with it....

I don't understand why you are making such a fuss and being so hostile to people asking a simple question either. I find it funny you ask why all the fuss and hostility when you are one of the main ones making a fuss and being hostile.
warspite1

So you were just trolling then?

I wanted the answer posted here....where the question was already asked and you can bet is going to be asked again. I couldn't remember the exact wording (and you know how those certain individuals will act if you get a quote wrong)... and my last 50 posts don't contain my post in the thread I was looking for....and my last 100 posts don't show up at all for some reason. So I decided to just ask for it hoping someone else would either remember it word for word...or would find it their last 50 posts and link to it. Yes I knew that certain people were going to act a certain way.

So,...no the purpose wasn't to troll them...it was to get the answer to the question......I knew how certain people were going to act,. but.....they acted the way they did purely on their own.
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: KERENSKY

So they got trapped by their idea to force sell the books on people.

Game should have been sold 90$, 120$ with book.
They force the book into the package and print them, but made a gesture to put a price of 100$.

Now they are trapped and cant lower the price of the digital dowload edition without raising the physical edition up to 125$.

As simple as that.

I am also convinced that they think that including books was mandatory because no one will pay 100$ for a computer games without shinies added to it.
warspite1

And this is why peeps get so frustrated with this...

Exactly how do you deduce that - and said with such certainty? You are privvy to the economics of this deal? Who gets paid what? How much ADG earn? How much Steve get's etc? You know all that do you such that you can confidently state what Matrix should sell for?

Why can't they lower the price of the Digital download without increasing the physical edition cost? Where did that come from?

And as for your last statement - well you are easily convinced wrongly. People have bought at $100 without the books and maps. I would have bought the game without - the
books and maps were a great bonus but I paid for the GAME.

Edit: Spelling

I think Kerensky was referring to 'most' gamers wont pay $100 without shinies,.... and we come back to the VERY OLD debate------- the truth of the matter is 'most' people wont even buy this game at $20. Which is why its considered a niche market,...which is why the prices have to be higher than usual to make it possible to make the games to begin with......but letting your old catalog sit and not making any money off of it at all when you could reduce the prices on a lot of those old titles and make money off of them FOR NOTHING.....which could help the overall finances of the company....which means they could lower prices on newer games as well.....sell a few more copies of them....attracting a few new customers who may buy other new titles or some of the old 'cheaper' titles (and will also help get new customers by the old tried and true word of mouth method)....further improving the finances of the company.....and on and on...

But that's an old debate......Matrix maintains they aren't going to change from what has worked for them for so long (but don't ask why they are doing it different here!!!!!).

So we are left with the self fulfilling prophecy of high prices and niche market.
warspite1

Correct. We agree at last [;)]. Most people wouldn't touch this game if you gave it to them. Most people are simply not interested in this type of niche game.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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Centuur
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Centuur »

Gentlemen, gentlemen... If you are looking at this topic critically, I think everyone here must conclude that there is a difference opinion on what is reasonable or not.

Personally, I think it is wise for Matrix to stay out of this discussion, since it aren't the customers who are setting the price (or the would-be customers), but Matrix itself. I see no reason why Matrix has to react on "demands" to give a reason why the price of the game is as it is now. It's the shareholders who make the policy of a company, not the customers, I'm afraid...

Now, I wouldn't be surprised to see that when the AI is added to this game, you will have to pay $ 150,-- for the total game at that moment (with or without books)...

Personally, I think that the customers who are buying the game now might be better off, since due to the problems we are having now, Matrix might (and I say might) be tempted to make sure the first people to buy it get the AI option at a discount, since they should be aware of the mess they are in for putting the game on the market in the state it was in november...

But let's wait and see how things are progressing...


Peter
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Scott_WAR »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Gentlemen, gentlemen... If you are looking at this topic critically, I think everyone here must conclude that there is a difference opinion on what is reasonable or not.

Personally, I think it is wise for Matrix to stay out of this discussion, since it aren't the customers who are setting the price (or the would-be customers), but Matrix itself. I see no reason why Matrix has to react on "demands" to give a reason why the price of the game is as it is now. It's the shareholders who make the policy of a company, not the customers, I'm afraid...

Now, I wouldn't be surprised to see that when the AI is added to this game, you will have to pay $ 150,-- for the total game at that moment (with or without books)...

Personally, I think that the customers who are buying the game now might be better off, since due to the problems we are having now, Matrix might (and I say might) be tempted to make sure the first people to buy it get the AI option at a discount, since they should be aware of the mess they are in for putting the game on the market in the state it was in november...

But let's wait and see how things are progressing...



Matrix wont answer the question because someone demands that they do. They wont do it because of any other reason aside from it is what a good company does. Whether we like the reason or agree with the reason is irrelevant,,,,and they have no obligation to pacify any of us if we don't like it or don't agree.

But they will answer any question asked because as a company they do care, and any potential buyer can and will ask questions whether anyone else likes it or not. In fact I really don't understand why Matrix hasn't asked certain people (not you Centuur) to stop discouraging people from asking questions because it is not good for business.
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Scott_WAR »

ORIGINAL: warspite1


but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

Sorry to dig this up,...but when reading over the entire post it jumped out at me. You find it strange no one refuted them? So,...if you post that you would pay $200 for a game,...I need to post that I wouldn't or I have no right to say that $200 is too much later on? Really?

But really that's not even it. Just look at all the hostility in this thread to people just asking a simple question. An OBVIOUS question that those being hostile admit they KNEW was going to be asked. Yeah.....I wonder why nobody posted anything about it then................
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

ORIGINAL: warspite1


but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

Sorry to dig this up,...but when reading over the entire post it jumped out at me. You find it strange no one refuted them? So,...if you post that you would pay $200 for a game,...I need to post that I wouldn't or I have no right to say that $200 is too much later on? Really?

But really that's not even it. Just look at all the hostility in this thread to people just asking a simple question. an OBVIOUS question that they admit they KNEW was going to be asked. Yeah.....I wonder why nobody posted anything about it then................
warspite1

I think you've missed the point somewhat? I don't know what just jumped out at you but whatever it was it wasn't the point [:)]

What was important about the thread in question was the it was all about the books and the fact that peeps would have to pay extra to have books delivered - books that they didn't want. Okay. But. The thread went further, and peeps were stating, quite clearly that they were happy with the price of the game - they didn't want any favours - they just didn't want to be stung with the cost of shipping. This point was made specifically and on many occasions. Given the depth of feeling, you would have thought that someone, anyone, would have said "hold on, that's not right - if I don't get the books, I want the game cheaper". No one did, not one... as I say, that was strange given the depth of feeling. Matrix delivered what was asked of them.

But fair enough, the question has been asked. Let's see if its answered or not.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by Scott_WAR »

ORIGINAL: warspite1


No one did, not one... as I say, that was strange given the depth of feeling.

Posted in the link you are referring to.....page 6 post #171


tm.asp?m=3444898&mpage=6&key=
ORIGINAL: bairdlander

As I stated,resolve this issue by having the books optional.Also a discount if the buyer does not want the books.Simple.

EDIT- but to be fair I thinks he is actually the one and only to suggest it in the thread. LOL. But it is one.....
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RE: World in Flames Download Version Now Available

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR
ORIGINAL: warspite1


No one did, not one... as I say, that was strange given the depth of feeling.

Posted in the link you are referring to.....page 6 post #171


tm.asp?m=3444898&mpage=6&key=
ORIGINAL: bairdlander

As I stated,resolve this issue by having the books optional.Also a discount if the buyer does not want the books.Simple.

EDIT- but to be fair I thinks he is actually the one and only to suggest it in the thread. LOL. But it is one.....
warspite1

Hee hee [:)]

There's always one....
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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