Something different on PTs

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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afspret
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Something different on PTs

Post by afspret »

Came across some pics on Navsource of a couple of Elco 80ft boats that replaced either one or both the turret mounted twin 50s with single mount 20mm's. Also found one pic (of PT-195) that has a 20mm in the starboard turret and a US Army type twin 50 mount forward of the bridge. From what I can tell these boats were either assigned to PTRons 9 or 12.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by alanschu »

Tangentially related, I used to love the old Spectrum Holobyte game, PT-109, on the Mac way back in the day. (Though I believe it had serious stability issues.
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afspret
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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by afspret »

Here's another pic of a different boat.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by wdolson »

From what I've read PT boats went through a lot of field mods depending on their role. Around islands like the Solomons, the coast of New Guinea, and the PI, they proved to be excellent anti barge craft. A lot of them were modified in the field to have heavier gun armament and strip the torpedo armament. They were pretty effective gunboats.

In the plastic modeling world there have been a zillion kits of PT-109, but somebody is missing a wonderful opportunity, either in aftermarket or in variant kits, to produce some of these other kits. The newest PT boat on the market is 1/35 scale which lends itself nicely to mods with parts from armor kits in the same scale.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by zuluhour »

I think these guys on the PTs were some of the most adept scavengers in the Pacific. I'll resist the urge to mention ........McCale, who is in the game.[;)] 
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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by spence »

It seems that field mods don't hack it in the game. From what I've read PTs field mounted dang near every kind of gun under the sun: 37 mm AT, 40 mm and 75 mm (don't think this one stuck to the deck very well though). Scrounging is pretty hard to document though.

On the other had some field mods changed production: the PV Ventura started out with a bombardier and associated equipment in the nose; then was field modified which replaced the bombardier with 3 x .50 cal (chin pack), production of later PVs installed the "chin pack" as original equipment. The original PVs which had been shipped to combat units were replaced therein by PVs with the "chin pack" instead of the bombardier. My father flew these things. By mid 44 the aircraft standard was to have the 5x.50 cal in the nose. His training was focused on "masthead attack" using those 5x.50 cal plus the two in the top turret as flak suppression for his low level bomb attack (at roughly 500 ft). The game shows the original equip (2x.50cal in the nose) in the PV-1 but does have the successor a/c (PV-2 Harpoon) with 5x.50cal.
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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by wdolson »

The PV-1 ended up with a similar mission as the B-25 and was similarly armed.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by Feltan »

Most of those serving during WWII were not professional soldiers, sailors or airmen. IIRC, the Department of War went from under 300K to over 16 million during the course of the war. Your average GI in a WWII unit had less than a couple of years in uniform. Some units had no long serving personnel -- hence, they 1) often had little idea of, and were flummoxed with, administration of units, and 2) often had little regard for "the rules." Even if they knew the rules, they just often ignored them.

A couple of illustrative points:
- My Dad was a B-17 pilot in the ETO. He flew just about every model of aircraft that he could: fighters, transports, bombers. A few beers to the maintenance crew, and he was the "test pilot." Now, they were not authorized to have a test pilot, and my Dad wasn't officially qualified to be one. These latter points were mere administrative trivia to the boys in the early 40's.
- At my Dad's airfield outside of London, there were multiple squadrons. There was a C-47 transport plane that was the hanger queen. No matter how hard the maintenance boys worked on it, it was never mission ready. And, oddly, when they thought they had it fixed a dozen or so guys would take it on a test flight -- Friday afternoon, to, say, Scotland. The damn thing would break again, and they couldn't make it back until Monday morning.

I don't think these examples are even egregious. Many stories of tanks being "bought" by infantry units for a case of scotch. Whole truck convoys of fuel "diverted," and just about everything for sale on the black market.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by wdolson »

My better half's father was a crash forensics expert in the USAAF. He would investigate crashed aircraft, friendly and enemy to figure out why they failed. He was based in Kansas once which was a dry state at the time. The base commander assigned him and some other guys to fly to another state in a B-25 and get liquor.

My father has similar stories of bending the rules during the war.

During war time the rules are relaxed no matter how professional the military, though swelling the ranks with just about every young man of the generation helps that process.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by spence »

I don't think these examples are even egregious. Many stories of tanks being "bought" by infantry units for a case of scotch. Whole truck convoys of fuel "diverted," and just about everything for sale on the black market.

Not to hijack the thread but I believe it is a point of pride for the Ardennes 1944 Museum in La Gleize, Belgium that they acquired their King Tiger (Pz VIb) from some GI's for a bottle of wine. (The GI's had been assigned to collect abandoned German equipment left on the battlefield in 1945)
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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by tocaff »

Besides having more "toys" to work with the Americans were also more inclined to think for themselves as the culture encouraged it. That resulted in scrounging on a greater scale, modifying things to better fit the needs of reality.
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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by Feltan »

I didn't mean to hijack either. Just pointing out that breaking the rules, acquiring and modifying equipment (including PT boats) was a cottage industry for American GI's.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by wdolson »

I think hijacking threads is an art form around here.

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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by JeffroK »

You could make upgrade hulls for the PT, 4-5 weapons options, and allow the player to chose which one he wants.
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RE: Something different on PTs

Post by wdolson »

Make them conversions available at certain points. In game terms non-torpedo PT boats may be of limited use, but it would be an interesting mod.

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