World in Flames Download Version Now Available

[Scott_WAR]

I imagine they expected to get the game at lesser cost since they are receiving less. Its like those that buy the download version are helping pay for the books that others received.


Maybe they just want to pay a fair price for what they are getting.....not the same price for less.


The reason you saw the complaints coming is because they are well deserved. This launch had been a disaster from day 1 because of the stupidity of forcing players to buy books to begin with. And no,...the books are not free....if you actually believe that then I have many bridges for sale. So matrix has nobody to blame for themselves for the complaints they have received so far and will continue to receive until they decide to do something about the greed or backwards pricing and marketing.

[jfk]

Living in Germany I was one of the guys waiting for the chance not to sponsor FedEx or my national custom authorities. Now the Chance is here and I'll buy the game and pay the Price gladly.[:)]

I don't understand until now, why Matrix waited so long for this option. They could have had my 78 Euros 2 months earlier [;)]

For all those out there, now complaining that the Price is still way to high - regard this as a kickstartproject. Without the enthusiasm of Steve and Matrix and the bunch of betatesters these wonderfull game can't be realised as a computergame. I think I'll be realistic when i expect that MWIF doesn't become a topseller. Why? - I can't imagine that there will be a challenging AI. (Prove me wrong and I'll be the happiest man alive! [:D])So it will be a niche(?)-product for a small market and that means higher Prices.

But what the hack - I've spent my money sometimes on things more stupid than a computerversion of the game i love for more than 20years.

So with an old saying of German U-Boot-Männer:
"Gute Jagd und fette Beute" Steve and all the guys at Matrix for bringing this Project to an wonderful end!!!

Horrido from Germany
jfk

[Centuur]

And good hunting for you too... [:D]

[AxelNL]

JFK - I like your attitude!

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I imagine they expected to get the game at lesser cost since they are receiving less. Its like those that buy the download version are helping pay for the books that others received.

Then get the books and pay the shipping.

People wanted a d/l only version, they got a d/l only version. *Nobody* who has the say said it would be cheaper. Not in any way.

The people complaining *assumed* it with out evidence.

Just like they assume that these "deals of the week" are a permanent thing. Something the company never claimed.

But I'm sure that the ahem.."astute" Tim Stone will get on his soap box about pricing.

[jfk]

I've done it [:D] Paid, downloaded, installed and updated it - now i'm looking forward to get into the rules and the gamemechanics again - without occupying the whole livingroom [:'(]

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

I imagine they expected to get the game at lesser cost since they are receiving less. Its like those that buy the download version are helping pay for the books that others received.

They choose not to receive the physical portion and thus save on shipping and customs, not on any part of the game.

[Scott_WAR]

A quick look at the prices of physical and download only games here will show you a difference in price. Download only are less expensive.

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

Most people will want to know why they must pay the same price when they don't want the books. What a few people said a few weeks ago isn't going to be a satisfactory answer to them.

As a few have already mentioned,...they knew it was going to happen...because it is such an obvious and valid question.

I would suggest answering the question instead of whining that it has been asked......especially when it was so obvious it was going to be asked.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

A quick look at the prices of physical and download only games here will show you a difference in price. Download only are less expensive.

Like this?

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

[Scott_WAR]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

A quick look at the prices of physical and download only games here will show you a difference in price. Download only are less expensive.

Like this?

You realize how stupid you look right now?

[Scott_WAR]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

The question is why is this one game the same price for the physical and download version. All other games that offer a physical and download version have the download version at a lower price than the physical version. This game has three hardbound books in the physical version which has to be a factor in cost....why do download only people have to pay for the books they don't want? Shipping and custom costs are NOT the cost of the books themselves.

[paulderynck]

Once again - you misunderstand.

Matrix offered the game with the manuals - only. Go through and check the discussion threads.

tm.asp?m=3476048

tm.asp?m=3444898

You'll see all those who suggested giving fake shipping addresses, or refusing the physical goods when they came to the door. They made it very clear they did not want the manuals. They asked over and over again for a download only version of the game. They claimed over and over again that they were happy to pay the price asked but not happy to pay FedEx (et al) additional money for hard copy manuals they did not want. They did not ask for a less expensive version of the game without the manuals. It is Matrix's right and their decision alone as to what they are selling for what price. They accommodated all those people. They are selling them the game in the form Matrix planned to sell it in. They are simply allowing all those who complained to have their wish.

If the game costs more because it contains the manuals then so what? That's how Matrix chose to market it. They are not offering the game as a download without the manuals, they are offering the game as a download with the option to not ship the manuals.

[Scott_WAR]

Show me one of those people who is the spokesperson for everyone?

So....for the rest of the world that DIDNT say that,....whats the answer?

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

That's how Matrix chose to market it. They are not offering the game as a download without the manuals, they are offering the game as a download with the option to not ship the manuals.

Whats the reason they chose to market it that way, when its different than every other game they sell? Its a fair question.


As for "They are not offering the game as a download without the manuals, they are offering the game as a download with the option to not ship the manuals.
" that's about as silly a comment as I have seen in a while. The result of not shipping the manuals is THAT YOU DONT GET THE MANUALS. So you are BUYING THE DOWNLOAD WITHOUT THE MANUALS.

Trying to call a garbage collector a sanitation engineer doesn't change the fact that he collects garbage.

[rbutters]

Considering that probably a good 60-70% of that $99 actually goes towards paying for the books (if not more like 80-90%), it's absolutely nuts to charge $99 for a "computer game" that is basically a database & ruleset (no AI). The value in the original product WAS the books, according to most of you. Take the books away and you have something MUCH LESS. You have a database and ruleset, with no application outside hotseat or the most likely small player community. It's insane to charge $99 for a digital ruleset.

When I saw the front page note that a digital product was being offered I clicked right to it. Not because I would actually play it with another live human (I wouldn't), and not because it would give me years of single player enjoyment (no AI), but because I thought it would simply be fun to explore. I'd have made an immediate purchase at $40-60. But $99? Without the addons that actually warrant that price? Not a chance.

I'm sure I'll be flamed relentlessly, but it's a certainty I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Lost opportunity, Matrix. Very silly price.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: rbutters

Considering that probably a good 60-70% of that $99 actually goes towards paying for the books (if not more like 80-90%), it's absolutely nuts to charge $99 for a "computer game" that is basically a database & ruleset (no AI). The value in the original product WAS the books, according to most of you. Take the books away and you have something MUCH LESS. You have a database and ruleset, with no application outside hotseat or the most likely small player community. It's insane to charge $99 for a digital ruleset.

When I saw the front page note that a digital product was being offered I clicked right to it. Not because I would actually play it with another live human (I wouldn't), and not because it would give me years of single player enjoyment (no AI), but because I thought it would simply be fun to explore. I'd have made an immediate purchase at $40-60. But $99? Without the addons that actually warrant that price? Not a chance.

I'm sure I'll be flamed relentlessly, but it's a certainty I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Lost opportunity, Matrix. Very silly price.

warspite1

And that is fair enough - you won't get flamed for the decision not to purchase as you have clearly (based on what you say) made the right choice. To spend $100 on something you just want the chance to explore does not make any sense, unless $100 is inconsequential to you.

You probably will get picked up on the comment about the price generally. I do not know why people - who have no money, no commitment tied up in Matrix, - think they can dictate price and that they know how to price better. The number of times I have seen on these forums "I have a background in retail/marketing/whatever and I know for a fact that if they sold their products cheaper they would make more profits". Really? Perhaps they could apply that thinking to the real world and tell me why, if life was that simple, any business EVER goes bust. After all, declining sales? Shrinking Market? Don't worry, just reduce you price and everything will be all right....

If Matrix have their price policy wrong they will not be around much longer - that is the law of the free market. Do you honestly believe that whatever price Matrix offered this game at, there would not be cries of too expensive - silly price - missed opportunity?

Moreover, do you really think that if Matrix knew how long this game would take to develop and that having done so they could only sell at $40 they would ever have authorised the project? or that any sane programmer would have taken it on? Not a chance.

Perhaps when Matrix are out of business and these type of games are no longer made you will be happy?

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

He's looking for an answer from Matrix Games - like an official answer - not an answer from some pseudo spokesman or self assigned forum policeman.

He's entitled to ask - you can answer if you want, but he can choose to ignore your answer because he wants to know officially.

And as he said - the people who were willing to pay the same price without the books were not spokespeople for everyone. You probably only saw those answers in those threads because the rest couldn't be arsed to say that wasn't acceptable to them because of the hostility in this place.

If you don't like the "whining" and "carping" and "complaining" then don't read. Go play the game. And those terms used themselves are inflammatory.

HTF did you think this thread was going to go with that statement?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

He's looking for an answer from Matrix Games - like an official answer - not an answer from some pseudo spokesman or self assigned forum policeman.

He's entitled to ask - you can answer if you want, but he can choose to ignore your answer because he wants to know officially.

And as he said - the people who were willing to pay the same price without the books were not spokespeople for everyone. You probably only saw those answers in those threads because the rest couldn't be arsed to say that wasn't acceptable to them because of the hostility in this place.

If you don't like the "whining" and "carping" and "complaining" then don't read. Go play the game. And those terms used themselves are inflammatory.

HTF did you think this thread was going to go with that statement?

warspite1

No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

Given the hostility in this place and (further) any price thread for any game, I don't see why that is strange at all. And yes - I do think that was an aspect.

This place is full of unofficial forum police. Whenever anyone brings up a price topic, it goes to hell in a hand basket.

There was a statement made by Erik that a statement would be made and everything went pretty quiet. I believe that was because people thought he was on the case.

I also believe, along with the hostility, that people didn't think for a split second that Matrix would select one product in their entire arsenal of games to set the DD version at the same price as the physical product. Especially as you lot were pointing out how important the books were and how big a part of the purchase it was.

Regardless - they were asking Matrix - not anyone else. For anyone else to answer, without an official answering, just means this thread goes round and round like all the others. I thought I explained this to you before.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: warspite1
No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

Given the hostility in this place and (further) any price thread for any game, I don't see why that is strange at all. And yes - I do think that was an aspect.

This place is full of unofficial forum police. Whenever anyone brings up a price topic, it goes to hell in a hand basket.

There was a statement made by Erik that a statement would be made and everything went pretty quiet. I believe that was because people thought he was on the case.

I also believe, along with the hostility, that people didn't think for a split second that Matrix would select one product in their entire arsenal of games to set the DD version at the same price as the physical product. Especially as you lot were pointing out how important the books were and how big a part of the purchase it was.

Regardless - they were asking Matrix - not anyone else. For anyone else to answer, without an official answering, just means this thread goes round and round like all the others. I thought I explained this to you before.

warspite1

You turn up from time to time to have a go (at whoever) - and in your posts complain that threads go round and round - but cannot see the irony that that, by posting, you are part of that process that you profess to be so fed up of. I thought I had explained this to you before?