[DONE] New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

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Meroka37
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[DONE] New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Meroka37 »

First in a series of scenarios I'm editing based on a hypothetical WWIII, all will be small and playable only from Soviet side.

Any feedback will be welcome.

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bsq
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by bsq »

Good fun scenario. Like the random start 'shuffle' of the Soviet forces, makes it play out slightly differently every time.

Been averaging 3 merchants per 18 torpedoes, so with the two subs I have been able to take out the convoy.

The escorts seem to have a hard time finding the conventional subs, which is probably as it should be.

I tried using the MiG-23's - the F-16's made short work of them.

I tried using the SAG, but they just don't have enough missiles to do anything, the escorts stop them all.

Meroka37
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Meroka37 »

Another style if your SAG survives the SSM/ASM attack is to close in the convoy and finish it with the cannons... In one try I needed to...
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Dimitris »

WW3 Soviet side - Miguel, you're in my heart [:D]
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MR_BURNS2
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by MR_BURNS2 »

Playing it now, it looks very promising.

Is it possible that you put the wrong R-60 type in the Barak magazine? They have plenty of R-23 for several missions but they may be short of R-60 after they come back from the first.
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Meroka37
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Meroka37 »

ORIGINAL: MR_BURNS2

Playing it now, it looks very promising.

Is it possible that you put the wrong R-60 type in the Barak magazine? They have plenty of R-23 for several missions but they may be short of R-60 after they come back from the first.

Ok, I'll take it into acccount, thanks!
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MR_BURNS2
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by MR_BURNS2 »

After playing it 2 times i wonder if it matters, if they come into a WVR fight they die. Period. No second mission! [:D] One would have to setup a good ambush which is difficult without ground based radar.
I wonder if there should be more early warning radars on Nato side, i often traverse right in front of Narvik at low level and they never see me in time before i hit the airbase.
I don't know what Nato Doctrine was but i would place radars around valleys and fjords likely to be used by low level raiders, but maybe that would be too difficult.

Altogether a brilliant mission, i enjoy it very much.
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Gunner98
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Gunner98 »

Just downloaded and will give it a try.

MrBurns - I think the NATO doctrine was to have a NATO AWACS flight (4x E-3As) stationed at Orland. I think they realized that there were just too many ways to slip in along the coast and that complete coverage by ground based radars would be prohibitively expensive (in money and manpower), not overly effective and be much more subject to targeting than the AWACS. Haven't opened the scenario yet so not sure if I have the right context...[;)]

B
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Russian Heel »

The detail of Soviet submarine names strikes again. B-227 was not called Vyborg until July 2008 it was only B-227 until then. The Tango's name is incomplete, it should be Gorkovsky Komsomolets(Горьковский комсомолец)Grokovsky is the adjective form of "Gorky" describing where the particular Komsomolets are from. Fun scenario though! Really enjoyed it.
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by MR_BURNS2 »

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Just downloaded and will give it a try.

MrBurns - I think the NATO doctrine was to have a NATO AWACS flight (4x E-3As) stationed at Orland. I think they realized that there were just too many ways to slip in along the coast and that complete coverage by ground based radars would be prohibitively expensive (in money and manpower), not overly effective and be much more subject to targeting than the AWACS. Haven't opened the scenario yet so not sure if I have the right context...[;)]

B

Yeah i think AWACS would imbalance this mission too much, giving the russians no chance. It´s pretty decent the way it is. Besides, i would still put some reservists with a telephone into those fjords, cheap enough and they can't miss a jet passing them.
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Meroka37
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Meroka37 »

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel

The detail of Soviet submarine names strikes again. B-227 was not called Vyborg until July 2008 it was only B-227 until then. The Tango's name is incomplete, it should be Gorkovsky Komsomolets(Ãîðüêîâñêèé êîìñîìîëåö)Grokovsky is the adjective form of "Gorky" describing where the particular Komsomolets are from. Fun scenario though! Really enjoyed it.

Thanks for your comments, I'll correct those in next update.
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Gunner98 »

Interesting scenario, played cat and mouse with the Helos drawing the CAP into a flack trap, thinned out the F-16s by a couple. This allowed the MiGs to get in and sink a Merchant before they all went to the briny blue. Unfortunately one of the MPAs got lucky and found one of the subs at 750Ft doing 3Knts! I also got an Oberon with standoff ASW. Went in for a gun battle and sank the Mahon, damaged the Birmingham, the Lutjens ran out of Ammo, and the other escort which was never PID also seemed to run magazines dry at about the same time as the Kashen and Kresta went dry, the Udaloy and the Nanuchaka went down. That left a clear run for the Tango but I didn't control the rate of fire and she went tubes empty sinking two more Merchies. Effectivly all munitions expended and three Merchants down. 300 Points, not sure what level of victory that is.

B

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
8x F-16A Falcon
1x S 09 Oberon
1x P-3C Orion Update III
1x Commercial LNG/LPG Tanker [18,000t DWT]
2x SH-2F Seasprite
1x DDG 42 Mahan [Farragut Class]
2x Commercial Container Vessel - Post Panamax [9,500 TEU, 105,000t DWT]

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x MRK Nanuchka III [Pr.1234.1 Ovod]
1x PL-877 Kilo
3x MiG-23ML Flogger G
7x MiG-27K Flogger J
2x Ka-27PL Helix A
1x BPK Udaloy I [Pr.1155]
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Bazza042
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Bazza042 »

I've tried this three times now and it appears that the SAG is there as target practice for the F16's.
I have not achieved a single hit with any of the missiles on the attacking Falcons although I have downed
one with the guns. So in three attempts, in total, I have lost all the ships comprising the SAG and in
return on one occasion I have splashed a single Falcon.

When I used the Mig23 as CAP the Falcons used them as a snack, prior to the main SAG course.

If I put the helicopter up that just speeds up the slaughter as the SAG is found that much quicker.

I make no claim to any particular expertise on COMMAND and have left the ships to (auto) defend themselves.

BTW is there actually a convoy: haven't seen it yet!

To me, at the moment, this seems to be a somewhat pointless scenario.
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by bsq »

ORIGINAL: Bazza042


To me, at the moment, this seems to be a somewhat pointless scenario.
Don't agree, every time I concentrate and use my subs - 6 merchants are on the bottom of the Norwegian sea. IMO it is a good test of skills - choosing the right tools for the job.

I leave my Air on the ground - it doesnt stand a chance agains the F-16A's - though I am not sure what the thought is behind Floggers - should be Fencers from Naval Aviation, perhaps supported by SU-27's - the Floggers should be supporting the Red Army in Germany [;)]

I use my SAG as a decoy, to try to draw off the other NATO assets from my 2 boats.

I use the closest boat to find the convoy and try to sink the merchants as best I can, then I shadow the convoy - again as best I am able, given the speed they travel at... Then I use my final boat to finish off...

If you dont get 3 merchants with the first boat, or if this boat gets behind the convoy, then the scenario is not winnable (again IMO).
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Bazza042 »

I use my SAG as a decoy, to try to draw off the other NATO assets from my 2 boats.

It certainly does that: even in quiet mode and running away as fast as it can it, it always (four times now) gets caught by the air patrol and subsequent strike force to which there is no sensible defence. As I have seen a missile with a die roll of 3 'miss' a Falcon it is clear that a missile has only a 1-2% chance of impacting, if that, so the ships in the SAG are sitting ducks.

How you are not losing your ships is totally beyond me: as I said, and stand by, they are there for target practice.

Incidentally I've still not seen the convoy although on my fourth outing I found a sub, fired a spread of torpedoes at it, all of which missed whereupon it fired one back and nailed me. So I am now on the fourth attempt with one remaining sub, no ships, and all the aircraft tucked away safely on their airfield ready to go.

So I'm afraid I stand by my judgement that this is a somewhat pointless, in more ways than one, scenario.
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Gunner98 »

Bazza
My ships have survived the Falcon flock a couple times, the first run I tried to be stealthy - didn't work. The next couple times I fired up my radars and Jammers shortly after start, acted like bait for the falcons and I ended up splashing most of them at the cost of the Nanuchka.

I used the Helo to pop up with radars on. The instant it started to fly, the F-16s honed in on it but once I had the convoy it had done its work. Then, and timing is everything here, I drew the CAP in and RTB's the Helo, knocked down two F-16s with ship flack and lost one of the Helos on its 3rd try.

bsq has a good point that it should be Su-24's and 27's, but with the reduced CAP, I was able to get the Flogger G's in to splash a P-3 (unfortunately just after it had sunk a sub), and my J's got in to sink a merchant.

The Ship to Ship gun dual was almost pointless, the two lead ships sank (Udaloy & Farragut) and everyone else ran out of ammo - but I did damage a couple merchi's in the crossfire.

I don't have the finesse that bsq talks about with the subs but with the combination of air, ship & subs I found it quite fun. I think the trick is to go loud and bold with your SAG.

B
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by Russian Heel »

ORIGINAL: bsq


I leave my Air on the ground - it doesnt stand a chance agains the F-16A's - though I am not sure what the thought is behind Floggers - should be Fencers from Naval Aviation, perhaps supported by SU-27's - the Floggers should be supporting the Red Army in Germany [;)]


Eh, designer's intent he modeled the 88th APIB whom were part of the 11th Guards Air Division HQed in Hungary as part of Southern Group of Forces, but this Regiment was a strategic reserve unit based in Estonia, quite possible they could be flexed to Norway if they needed MiG-23/27 capabilities. I just fly them low level on top of the waves searching for ships, never find them with the MiGs and die now and then. Not too useful, but scenario is quite fun and far from impossible.
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by MR_BURNS2 »

You shouldn't leave your helos radar on all the time, fly as far away from the SAG as you can, turn radar on to see if the convoy is there, then radar off and RTB and do the same with the 2nd helo on another vector.
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RE: New scenario for testing: Red Episodes - Stop that Convoy

Post by bsq »

Each time I have found the convoy with the subs, it is because I have slowed them down to creep, placed them where they should get either direct path or CZ on the convoy and waited. Basically ziz-zag slowly towards where the convoy should be using the flank arrays to get the contact and then with the bearing shift, get a fix reasonably quickly.

As soon as sub 1 gets a sniff of the convoy, I manouevre it so that it can get in amongst the merchant ships and then effectively fire a pair of torpeodoes at each I get a good fix on at about 3000 metres range.

With the second sub I now plot an intercept course for the convoy - you know where it is going so this bit is easy. If you get amongst them while boat 1 is still attacking then it should be a walk in the park. If boat 1 empties its available weapons before boat 2 arrives, then try to use boat 1 to maintain contact with the convoy.

Never (ever) empty all your tubes, if you do, you are inviting trouble. I always try to keep two tubes in reserve for snap firing at any NATO sub I see, they can also be used to attack any escort that tries to attack you.
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